Obama Care: Oct 28, 2013

Monday, October 28, 2013

Horror of a unique position

(Difference between revisions)|url= http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Sept04/Hubble/Hubble_contents.html|url= http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Sept04/Hubble/Hubble_contents.html|quote=Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth…. The hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would be accepted only as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore, we disregard this possibility and consider the alternative … But the unwelcome supposition of a favoured location must be avoided at all costs ... Such a favoured position, of course, is intolerable ... Therefore, in order to restore homogeneity, and to escape the horror of a unique position, the departures from uniformity, which are introduced by the recession factors, must be compensated by the second term representing effects of spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape.}} and they are being selected and favoured by mainstream scientists based on philosophical criteria. According to South African cosmologist George Ellis who in 1973 co-authored the book ''The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time'' with University of Cambridge physicist [[Stephen Hawking]]{{cite book |title=The large scale structure of space-time|author=SW Hawking, GFR Ellis|url=http://www.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=QagG_KI7Ll8C&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&dq=Ellis+Hawking+The+Large+Scale+Structure+of+Space-Time&ots=GnrgjlTyZb&sig=Qrm1MQGvr6n7yiT0M3dMg0An36o&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Ellis&f=false}},'' "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the [[scientific observation|observations]]. For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that."''{{cite journal |author=Gibbs,W.W. |year=1995 |title=Profile: George F. R. Ellis: Thinking Globally, Acting Universally |publisher=Scientific American |volume=273 (4) |pages=28-29}} |quote=Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth…. The hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would be accepted only as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore, we disregard this possibility and consider the alternative … But the unwelcome supposition of a favoured location must be avoided at all costs ... Such a favoured position, of course, is intolerable ... Therefore, in order to restore homogeneity, and to escape the horror of a unique position, the departures from uniformity, which are introduced by the recession factors, must be compensated by the second term representing effects of spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape.}} and they are being selected and favoured by mainstream scientists based on philosophical criteria. According to South African cosmologist George Ellis who in 1973 co-authored the book ''The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time'' with University of Cambridge physicist [[Stephen Hawking]]{{cite book |title=The large scale structure of space-time|author=SW Hawking, GFR Ellis|url=http://www.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=QagG_KI7Ll8C&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&dq=Ellis+Hawking+The+Large+Scale+Structure+of+Space-Time&ots=GnrgjlTyZb&sig=Qrm1MQGvr6n7yiT0M3dMg0An36o&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Ellis&f=false}},'' "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the [[scientific observation|observations]]. For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of [[cosmology]] tries to hide that."''{{cite journal |author=Gibbs,W.W. |year=1995 |title=Profile: George F. R. Ellis: Thinking Globally, Acting Universally |publisher=Scientific American |volume=273 (4) |pages=28-29}}

The Horror of a unique position[1] is expression for embarrassment of naturalistic theorists who fear that our place, that is planet, Solar system or Milky Way galaxy could be extraordinary in the universe[2]. They do not like the idea that we might be at or near the center of the universe because that would suggest that we are in a special or privileged position, perhaps put here on purpose by the Creator.[3] Horror of a privileged position leads to prejudice, violation of the Socratic principle, damning the alternatives, and clinging to the biased a priori assumptions such as those of uniformity and homogeneity of the universe. Consequently, atheistic cosmologists assert that "there must be no favoured location in the universe, no centre, no boundary; all must see the universe alike". In order to ensure this situation, they postulate spatial isotropy and spatial homogeneity, which is way of stating that the universe must be pretty much alike everywhere and in all directions. In their reasoning, they use circular argument hence claim that a favoured position is intolerable because it represents a discrepancy with the theory that postulates homogeneity. Then, in order to restore homogeneity, and "to escape the horror of a unique position", the departures from uniformity, which are introduced by the recession factors, must be from their perspective compensated by the second term in the Einstein's field equations representing effects of spatial curvature. The kinds of universes that would be compatible with these principles are belonging to the set of so called relativistic cosmological models[1] and they are being selected and favoured by mainstream scientists based on philosophical criteria. According to South African cosmologist George Ellis who in 1973 co-authored the book The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time with University of Cambridge physicist Stephen Hawking[4], "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations. For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that."[5]

? 1.0 1.1 Edwin Hubble (1937). The Observational Approach to Cosmology. Oxford University Press. “Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth…. The hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would be accepted only as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore, we disregard this possibility and consider the alternative … But the unwelcome supposition of a favoured location must be avoided at all costs ... Such a favoured position, of course, is intolerable ... Therefore, in order to restore homogeneity, and to escape the horror of a unique position, the departures from uniformity, which are introduced by the recession factors, must be compensated by the second term representing effects of spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape.”? Richard Phillips Feynman et al. (2002). Feynman Lectures on Gravitation. Westview Press, 166. ISBN 978-0813-340388. “I suspect that the assumption of uniformity of the universe reflects a prejudice born of a sequence of overthrows of geocentric ideas...It would be embarrassing to find, after stating that we live in an ordinary planet about an ordinary star in an ordinary galaxy, that our place in the universe is extraordinary...to avoid embarrassment we cling to the hypothesis of uniformity” ? Alex Williams, John Hartnett (2005). Dismantling the Big Bang. Green Forest, AR, USA: Master Books, 132. ISBN 978-0-89051-437-5. ? SW Hawking, GFR Ellis. The large scale structure of space-time. ? Gibbs,W.W. (1995). Profile: George F. R. Ellis: Thinking Globally, Acting Universally. 273 (4). Scientific American. pp. 28-29.

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The Question evolution! campaign is a worldwide anti-evolution campaign and is primarily being conducted in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and South Africa.[1] The focus of the campaign is on 15 Questions that evolutionists cannot satisfactorily answer. The 15 questions can be found HERE.

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Barack Hussein Obama

, and a senior lecturer from 1996-2004. After Obama was criticized for lying about his job title, the University of Chicago released a statement stating that senior lecturers are considered Law School faculty and regarded as professors but not full-time or tenured. Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time, tenured track position several times during this period but declined each time.[45]

In 1995 Obama published Dreams From My Father about his life and family background.[18]

On October 9, 2009 Barack H. Obama became the third sitting U.S. President[46] to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples".[47] Obama stated that he was "surprised and deeply humbled" to receive the unexpected award,[48] and also said, "To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this prize -- men and women who have inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace".[46] The award was widely criticized given Obama's then lack of accomplishments.[49]

Main article: Radical roots of Barack Hussein Obama

In 1995 a cadre of like minded individuals gathered for a fundraising event in the early career of Barack Obama hosted by Weather Underground (WUO) terrorist William "Bill" Ayers. Besides Obama, those in attendance were Ayers wife Bernardine Dohrn,[50] and Carl Davidson, veterans of guerrilla warfare training in Cuba just prior 1968 Democratic National Convention riots. Ayers and Dohrn have taken credit for, and never denied, bombing the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon and the State Department.

Ayers and Dohrn used their celebrity status among leftists to launch Obama's career. Ayers, Dohrn and Jeff Jones[51] are authors of Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-imperialism, the title taken from The Sayings of Mao Zedong.[52] The book declares "we are communist men and women."[53] Ayers later jokingly, publicly admitted to ghostwriting Obama's book, Dreams From My Father[54] and Obama was to appoint several openly avowed Maoists to prominent White House and Executive Branch positions.[55]

Barack Obama ran for the Illinois state senate in 1996. He was initially supported by incumbent Alice Palmer, who declared she would run for the U.S. Congress. However, when her bid for Congress failed on November 28, 1995, she tried to run for her old seat in the March 1996 election. Her supporters asked Obama to step aside, although whether this was with her permission remains uncertain.[34] Not only did Obama not step down, he gathered a team of high-priced lawyers, including fellow Harvard Law School graduate Thomas Johnson, to challenge his opponent's petition signatures on technicalities after the filing deadline had passed. Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago; in 2006 they eliminated 67 of the 245 aldermanic candidates;[56] yet nevertheless led to the term "hardball" by the New York Times[34] and "cutthroat" by David Mendel as reported by both CNN[28] and MSNBC.[18] The Chicago Tribune declared Obama had mastered "the bare-knuckle arts of Chicago electoral politics", noting "The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it."[56] As one of Obama's four opponents, eliminated through his ballot challenges, would put it:

"Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates? He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?"

-Gha-is Askia, 1996 Illinois Senate candidate[57]

Mark Ewell, another candidate, filed 1,286 signatures, and Obama's challenges left him 86 short of the minimum requirement (757[58]). Ewell filed a federal lawsuit contesting the election board's decision but Tom Johnson intervened, and Ewell's case was dismissed just a few days later. Ewell and other Obama opponents were using early 1995 polling sheets to verify signatures of registered voters, but city authorities had just purged 15,871 unqualified people from the 13th district list, and Obama's challenges used the more recent, updated list. Askia was left 69 signatures short of the requirement. If names were printed instead of signed in cursive, they were declared invalid. If they were good but the person registering the signatures wasn't a registered voter (e.g. underage) they were invalid.[59] Palmer had according to Obama campaign consult Ronald Davis, used two children to help gather her petition signatures. To this day Palmer denies the challenges were valid, and maintains she could have overcome the objections with more time and resources.[56] Thanks to his lawyers, Obama would win the election without a single other candidate on the ballot. Main Article: Illinois 1st congressional district election, 2000

In 2000, Obama lost his only political election when he chose to run against experienced incumbent and former Black Panther and Bobby L. Rush for the U.S. Congress in a 65% black district. Rush's name recognition began at 90%, Obama's at 11%. Michelle Obama opposed taking on an such an iconic figure dear to the community and threatened divorce.[60] Establishment Democrats considered Obama "a white man in blackface".[61] Rush said of Obama, “He went to Harvard and became an educated fool,” adding, “We’re not impressed with these folks with these eastern elite degrees.”[62]Todd Spivak would give voice to this impression of Obama, noting that

"My view of Obama then wasn't all that different from the image he projects now....One thing I can say is, I never heard him launch into the preacher-man voice he now employs during speeches. He sounded vanilla, and activists in his mostly black district often chided him for it."[58] Rush would go on to win the Primary with 61.02% of the vote; Obama received 30.36%.[39] The loss led to Obama considering dropping out of politics altogether, particularly after the September 11, 2001 attacks, since his name sounds similar to "Osama bin Laden".[18]

Obama entered the Illinois Senate promising change to a corrupt system. He mixed often radical votes with more pragmatic agreements. Possibly one of his most radical votes was against requiring medical care for aborted children who survive the procedure - in fact the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council ascribed him a 100% rating for his consistently pro-choice votes.[64] He was criticized for using the statehouse as a stepping stone for a more illustrious career: Steven J. Rauschenberger, a Republican, said prior to Obama's election as president: “He is a very bright but very ambitious person who has always had his eyes on the prize, and it wasn’t Springfield. If he deserves to be president, it is not because he was a great legislator.”[65]

The statehouse was majority Republican, so the Senator was sometimes forced to compromise. He formed allegiances across party lines to pass campaign finance reform that banned most gifts by lobbyists, prohibited spending campaign money for legislators’ personal use and required electronic filing of campaign disclosure reports.[65] Obama also helped pass a so-called “driving-while-black bill”, which required the police to collect data on the race of drivers they stopped as a way to monitor racial profiling.[65]

Obama established himself as a chief spokesperson in opposition to the War on Terror during an October 2002 rally at Federal Plaza in Chicago[66] organized by veteran Maoist and webmaster of Progressives for Obama,[67] Carl Davidson.

Main Article: 2003 Barack Obama deal with Emil Jones

When Illinois' U.S. Senator Peter Fitzgerald announced he would be retiring in April 2003, Obama jumped at the opportunity, declaring that he would be a candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2004.[18] To boost his chances Obama approached the newly crowned president of the Illinois Senate, Emil Jones Jr., with a proposal. According to Jones, whom Obama has since called his "godfather"[68] the conversation went as follows:

"After I was elected president, in 2003, he came to see me, a couple months later. And he said to me, he said, ‘You’re the senate president now, and with that, you have a lot of pow-er.’? And I told Barack, ‘You think I got a lot of pow-er now?,’ and he said, ‘Yeah, you got a lot of pow-er.’ And I said, ‘What kind of pow-er do I have?’ He said, ‘You have the pow-er to make a United States sen-a-tor!’? I said to Barack, I said, ‘That sounds good!’ I said, ‘I haven’t even thought of that.’ I said, ‘Do you have someone in mind you think I could make?,’ and he said, ‘Yeah. Me.’?"[29][34]

Because of the deal, Obama's entire Illinois Senate legislative record was, as longtime Obama reporter Todd Spivak put it, built in a single year. During his 7th and final year in the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored an incredible 26 bills into law, including many he now points to when criticized as inexperienced[58] - as CNN's Suzanne Malveaux observed, "With help from on high, Obama got his name on hundreds of bills that he pushed through."[28] Jones not only had Obama craft legislation addressing daily tragedies to raise his political profile[68], he also appointed Obama head of almost all high-profile legislation in the Illinois Senate, angering other state legislators with more seniority who'd spent years supporting the bills.[58] Illinois State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of the famous racial profiling bill requiring videotaped confessions in police interrogations, complained bitterly about Jones' decision.[28][69] Jones' influence had a major impact on Obama's chances in the 2004 elections, preventing major political players from backing Obama's opponents. To quote Emil Jones,

"He knew if he had me in the run for the Senate, it would put a block on the current mayor. The current mayor and the father of the controller, which was Dan Hynes, they were roommates in Springfield when the mayor was a state senator, so they had a relationship. Another big financial backer for the governor was Blair Hull. Barack knew if he had me it would checkmate the governor, ’cause the governor couldn’t come out and go with Blair Hull, ’cause the governor needs me. Same with the mayor. So he had analyzed and figured all of that out. He knew I could help him with labor support. And I could put a checkmate on some of the local politicians that didn’t know him, but they couldn’t really go against me."

-Emil Jones[29]

See also: Barack Obama:U.S. Senate (2004-2008), United States Senate election in Illinois, 2004

Despite initially trailing in the polls to frontrunner Blair Hull[69], Obama greatly benefited from what the Chicago Tribune called "the most inglorious campaign implosion in Illinois political history"[70] when pressure from journalists and opposing candidates, just weeks before the election, forced the unsealing of Hull's messy divorce files.[71] The files revealed Hull's ex-wife's accusations of verbal and physical abuse.[58] Hull would afterwards criticize the media, stating, "As for the press, I will never read the newspaper the same way again."[70] Obama would go on to win the Primary with 53% of the vote.[71] Obama's unexpected victory led to him being termed a "rising star" by the media.[72]

Once again Obama found himself trailing to popular frontrunner Jack Ryan, and once again a candidate's campaign imploded thanks to media intervention. In an unprecedented move, the Chicago Tribune and local TV station WLS sued to force the unsealing of Ryan's divorce files, despite opposition from both Ryan and his wife, Jeri Ryan, who in the files accused Jack Ryan of trying to coerce her to perform sex acts in public. Though Ryan advisors told him he could still win if using a negative attack on Obama, Ryan refused to engage in what he considered dirty politics.[73] Ryan then dropped out of the race (per request by the Illinois GOP[74]), following which the Illinois GOP scrambled to find a replacement, leaving Obama uncontested for weeks to campaign and build up public support. On top of all this, Obama was selected to give the keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention (July 27[75]), catapulting him into the national spotlight, and leading to further media publicity terming him a "rising star".[76]

Main Article: Obama born alive controversy

After a number of candidates including former Chicago Bears coach Mike Ditka declined to run[77], the Illinois GOP finally settled on fiery Alan Keyes, a former Ambassador to the Economic and Social Counsel of the United Nations[58], with less than 3 months left before the November 2004 election.[18] His sudden entrance into the state for the election was initially attacked in the press as "carpetbagging".[78][79] Keyes repeatedly claimed his primary motivation for entering a race he had seemingly no chance of winning was his disgust at Obama's votes on the popular Born Alive bills.[80] Keyes, from his first day of arriving in Illinois (August 9, 2004)[81], accused Obama of having voted against bills mandating medical care for newborn children, and supporting "infanticide" (the term twice used in the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act[82]) where hospitals left newborn infants to die like garbage.[83] Obama in a debate on October 13, 2004, defended himself against Keyes' accusations of infanticide by claiming that Illinois law was already sufficient.[84]

However, Keyes' rhetoric, calling Obama's votes "the slaveholder's position"[81] and saying "Jesus Christ would not vote for Obama"[85] was widely ridiculed by the press. Keyes' unabashed criticism of homosexuality as "selfish hedonism" was also targeted.[79][86] Obama would ultimately win the election, 70% to 27%.[87]

Obama's incomplete term in the U.S. Senate was largely unoteworthy. In voting against raising the debt limit in 2006 Obama famously said, "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit."[88][89] In 2008 as candidate for president Obama called George W. Bush's request to raise the debt limit "irresponsible" and "unpatriotic".[90]

The National Journal ranked him the most liberal senator in 2007.[91]

Obama frequently used the filibuster to obstruct the operations of government,[92] and voted against the minimum wage bill[93] he introduced because it included a provision to pay active duty U.S. troops. He voted for the $700 billion TARP program to bailout the big banks after receiving more than $120,000 in contributions from Fannie Mae, a government sponsored entity[94] taken into conservatorship for mismanaging its affairs and responsible for all the big bank's problems.

According to Opensecrets.org, of the 671,269 contributions to Obama during his time in the Senate, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup, and Morgan Stanley were among the top 20 biggest money donors to his campaigns. [11][12] All four subsequently received approximately $70 billion in taxpayer assisted bailout money from the TARP program he voted for.[95] UBS AG, a foreign bank and the 12th largest donor to Obama,[96] was fined $780 billion in February 2009 in a U.S. Federal Court on charges it helped thousands of Americans evade taxes.[97]

Main article: Barack Hussein Obama 2008 Presidential campaign

Unlike Hillary Clinton and John Kerry, Obama's hands were not stained with a vote for the Iraqi war resolution, as he was not in the Senate at the time; a minority of Democrats who wanted to punish candidates for exhibiting bi-partisanship began calling for his candidacy after liberals lauded his 2004 Democratic National Convention speech.

In 2007-08, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton competed for the Democratic nomination. Hillary Clinton cleverly resurrected the "Born Alive" controversy surrounding Obama that had lain largely dormant since 2004 (notwithstanding the continuing mentions by Jill Stanek), by accusing Obama of not being pro-choice for voting "Present" on a number of abortion-related bills[98] - including the Born Alive ones,[99] and cowardly ducking the votes.[100] This led to criticism of Obama by two pro-choice organizations, Emily's List, and the National Organization for Women.[101] However, Pam Sutherland, the long-time head of Illinois Planned Parenthood, came to Obama's aid, criticizing Clinton for making the attack, and stating repeatedly that Obama's present votes were part of a broader strategy used by Planned Parenthood to keep Illinois voters from knowing their state senators were voting against the controversial and popular bills.[102]

"He came to me and said: ‘My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women. A ‘present’ vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted. What it did was give cover to moderate Democrats who wanted to vote with us but were afraid to do so" because of how their votes would be used against them electorally. A ‘present’ vote would protect them. Your senator voted ‘present.’ Most of the electorate is not going to know what that means."

-Pam Sutherland, President/CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, 1980-2012[103]

As the contest in Iowa drew near and the former First Lady's inevitability was being usurped by a challenger, Hillary Clinton organizers began circulating rumors that Obama was secretly a Muslim.[104] Clinton also made the claim repeatedly that while Obama was leading in Delegates she was winning the Popular Vote[105], though this was in part because Obama hadn't been registered in Michigan.[106] Obama's advantage with super-delegates over Clinton was about 2-to-1.[107] Obama was able to attract the support of liberals by pointing out that he had come out against the Iraq War "from the beginning" whereas Clinton had voted in favor of the war in 2002.[108] On June 7, 2008, Hillary Clinton withdrew from the Primaries, conceding the race and endorsing her opponent[109], when Obama passed the 2,118 Delegates required; winning 2,201 delegates to Clinton's 1,896.[110]

On June 30, 2008, Obama's voting record on the "Born Alive" bills came once more to the forefront when CNN gave voice to the growing controversy and revealed the defense Obama had been using since 2004-2008, that the Illinois bills he'd voted against were different from the federal bill, was false, since he'd brought up for a vote a bill word for word identical to the federal bill in the Health and Human Services Committee he chaired, and voted against it, defeating it.[111] This led in August to a confrontation between Obama and the NRLC.[112] After Obama accused critics of 'lying'[113] the NRLC challenged the assertion, and the Obama campaign conceded he "misspoke" and had voted against an identical bill to the "federal bill that everybody supported" but focused on Obama's new claim, that Illinois law was already sufficient to protect newborn children.[114] The NRLC promptly declared "Senator Barack Obama's four-year effort to cover up his full role in killing legislation to protect born-alive survivors of abortions continues to unravel."[115]

See also: Barack Obama and Liberation Theology

One major dilemma that arose for Obama during his campaign was his connection to his preacher Jeremiah Wright. Obama and his wife (raised a Baptist) were members of the Trinity United Church of Christ[116] in Chicago, a church that embraced black liberation theology and its emphasis on empowering so-called "oppressed groups" against "establishment forces". This denomination was the first in America to ordain gays as ministers.[117] Church pastor Jeremiah Wright had been making inflammatory comments and posting his sermons online for sale. These include the statement "G-d damn America," and in describing the September 11th attacks, "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."[118] In addition, Rev. Wright blamed America saying "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic."

In April 2008, after 20 years in the church, candidate Obama made public statements poised to set him at odds with the man who conducted his wedding and baptized his children. With the negative publicity persisting, a month later Obama ended the friendship, left Wright's church, and blamed the media.[119] Obama claimed “It’s not fair to the other members of the church who seek to worship in peace...", and distanced himself from Wright's sermons as "a bunch of rants that aren't grounded in the truth."[120][121]

Obama made an effort to portray John McCain as similar to George W. Bush, drawing attention to McCain's refusal to criticize the unpopular president. McCain was particularly criticized for saying of how many years we should be willing to stay in Iraq, "Make it a hundred."[122]

"John McCain went on television and said that there has been great progress economically over the last seven-and-a-half years. John McCain thinks our economy has made great progress under George W. Bush? How could somebody who has been traveling across this country, somebody who came to Erie, Pennsylvania, say we’ve made great progress?"

-Barack Obama[123]

On August 22nd, Obama selected Joe Biden as his running mate for the vice presidency[124], which would be contrasted one week later with John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin.[125]

On November 2, 2008, Barack Obama won the presidential election with 365 electoral votes to John McCain's 173.[126] Obama received 53% of the popular vote to John McCain's 46%.[127]

Main article: Obama administration

Five years into Obama's presidency the number of people holding jobs still was 3 million below the all time high of 138 million[128] workers - despite an increase of 10 million people in population over the same period of time.[129] Under Obama and Senate Democrats[130] budget management, the United States suffered its largest deficits[131] in history and its credit-worthiness downgraded from Standard & Poors. Obama assured Americans that unemployment would not rise above 8% if his economic stimulus program was adopted, however it rose and stagnated in the 8-10% range[132][133] for the entirety of his first term.

Patrick H. Caddell and Douglas E. Schoen, writing in the Wall Street Journal, noted, "Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship." The commentators also note Obama's approach to governance has encouraged radical leftists to pursue a similar strategy on his behalf. Mary Frances Berry, former head of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, acknowledged that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention from other issues, saying, "Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."[134] Caddell and Schoen, who worked for President Carter and Clinton, respectively, further stated, "Mr. Obama has also cynically divided the country on class lines. He has taken to playing the populist card time and time again. He bashes Wall Street and insurance companies whenever convenient to advance his programs, yet he has been eager to accept campaign contributions and negotiate with these very same banks and corporations behind closed doors in order to advance his political agenda... President Obama's divisive approach to governance has weakened us as a people and paralyzed our political culture."[135]

See also: Obamunism and American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

Critics of the Obama administration have coined the word "Obamunism" to describe Barack Obama's socialistic and "fascism light" economic planning policies.[137][138][139] Obamunism can also refer to Obama's ruinous fiscal policies and reckless monetary policies.[140][141][142] As seen in his own actions, Barack Obama instructed his advisors to find loopholes that would enable the president to act as a dictator by pushing through legislation and increases in spending without congressional authority.[143]

Nevertheless, budgets passed under President Obama have included the smallest average annualized growth of federal spending (1.4%) since before President Reagan. Federal spending grew an average of 8.7% per year during Reagan's first term and an average of 8.1% per year during George W. Bush's second term.[144]

Wall Street firms and banks that were bailed out were among Obama's biggest campaign supporters.[145] Therefore, the Obama administration bailouts of corrupt, unproductive, and reckless Wall Street firms was hardly surprising, and many argue that it was not helpful in making the United States economy more productive and prosperous by encouraging more risk taking through letting banks off with a slap on the wrist. Others argue that bailing out the banks kept credit flowing and prevented a much deeper recession and a total collapse of the financial system. The government will recoup some though not all of its capital infusions over time. A 2005 study found that government corporate bailouts are often done for mere political considerations and the economic resources allocated exhibit significantly worse economic performance than resources allocated using purely business considerations.[146] Proponents of free market capitalism said Bernanke should not have bailed out failing firms and instead should have allowed free market capitalism to quickly recover as it did in the depression of 1920 without government intervention (free market capitalists assert that government intervention drags out economic recessions and depressions).[147]

Top trend forecaster Gerald Celente predicts that the corrupt economic policies of the Obama administration will lead to a second great depression (Celente predicted the 1987 US stock market crash, the dot.com crash, the US 2008/2009 recession, and the collapse of the USSR in the early 1990s) and may lead to a "second American Revolution" (Celente predicted the tax protests that are now occurring in America).[148][149] Celente also asserts that the costly and inefficient temporary short term methods that the Obama administration is using to alleviate economic problems in the short term (which is causing massive increases in Obama administration deficit spending) is only making matters worse and will not prevent the worse economic depression in United States history from occurring.[150][151]

The Obama administration has been sharply criticized for its massive deficit spending and its reckless monetary policy via vast increases in the money supply, although inflation under Bernanke has been below the historic mean.[140][141][152] Celente predicts that if a "second American Revolution" occurs in a peaceful and productive manner, it may include a third party movement of governance that will advocate a more free market capitalism approach to the American economy and a more strict interpretation of the United States constitution as far as the authors' original intent.[148][149]

During what the White House billed as Recovery Summer, one half million workers per week continued losing their jobs. His signature legislative achievement, ObamaCare,has been found to be unconstitutional[153] by several judges and constitutional by others, and is credited as a major cause of uncertainty, high unemployment,[154] lagging job creation,[155] and risk of a credit default crisis.[156][157]

His 2012 Budget plan has been roundly criticized in the mainstream and liberal press as not a serious effort to deal with the nation's economic crisis.[158]

Jeffrey Tucker wrote, "President Obama's economic policy has been catastrophic for liberty, enterprise, and the American dream—the very archetype of what not to do to end recession." [13]

Hollywood Braces For Obamacare

(Thinkstock Image)

Hollywood, which helped sell Obamacare by promoting it in TV shows and is now being recruited by the Obama administration to make the unpopular law look "cool" to youths, is bracing itself for the law's implementation.

"It's a morass of regulations and requirements, and everyone's trying to figure out what their exposure is," Eric Belcher, president and CEO of Cast & Crew Entertainment Services, told the Hollywood Reporter. "[Obamacare] is thousands of pages and it wasn't written with this industry in mind."

The entertainment industry is already having difficulty determining whether employees can be considered full-time or part-time and is fearful of the fines it will face if it chooses incorrectly. Another issue the health law creates is the outsourcing of productions to foreign countries, since Obamacare's regulations and fines don't apply to US citizens abroad. Studios may find it much cheaper to film in another country and avoid the burden of Obamacare. They may also cut the number of production days in the U.S. in order to avoid paying a penalty or providing health insurance to full-time workers. This would hit independent films and TV pilots the hardest, as they are the least likely to be able to afford Obamacare.

"Our clients need to know that the days of 100-percent employer-paid benefits at a certain executive level can no longer exist," said Daniel Cox, who leads a payroll-services company currently working to navigate Obamacare's costs on the entertainment industry.

But Obamacare's woes this week don't stop at Hollywood. A new Gallup poll shows that 42 percent of Americans believe the law will make their family's health care situation worse, compared to just 22 percent who feel it will be better under the new law. Even worse, 47 percent say the law will make the health care situation in the US worse, with 34 percent saying it will be better.

This new poll comes as Democrats admit seniors are still confused about the health care law. "There are seniors, someone mentioned, who are coming to town hall meetings and wondering what do they have to do differently," said Rep. Allyson Schwartz, D-Penn., after a meeting with Health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius on Wednesday. Older Americans are worried that Obamacare, which cut over $700 billion from Medicare, will change the health program.

It's been a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day for Obamacare, and all these problems are just added to the fact that some employees will see their hours cut, their premiums increase or their jobs lost.

View the original article here

Talk:Main Page

(Difference between revisions):What makes you think he's a conservative? As to religious tattoos, they are not meaningful, except as indicator of interest. The problem is, the NFL discourages development and expression of interest in [[Christianity]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:23, 27 June 2013 (EDT):What makes you think he's a conservative? As to religious tattoos, they are not meaningful, except as indicator of interest. The problem is, the NFL discourages development and expression of interest in [[Christianity]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:23, 27 June 2013 (EDT)I have had two ideas about Conservapedia to help further the project:1. I know intermediate French, and so I believe I may be able to translate some more crucial articles, or at least summarise such articles into French. I think this could help further our international reach.2. I think that a page should be created for general chat about the Conservative movement, Conservative beliefs and individual thoughts. I've looked at the debate pages and they are dead, but I think a more fluid single page would create useful discussion.Any thoughts? [[User:JAnderson|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson|Anderson]] 08:12, 28 June 2013 (EDT)This page is for discussion only of Main Page content and feature items. For discussion of other issues relating to the Conservapedia community please see Conservapedia:Community Portal.

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Student to be denied opportunity to walk at her High School graduation because the school doesn't want her to wear cord and medallion earned through National Society of High School Scholars. http://www.nbc4i.com/story/22461869/mount-vernon-senior-may

Keeping track of current events and CP content worth featuring is a very demanding and time-consuming task. All volunteers burn out eventually, so it is best if such duties are rotated on a regular basis. I propose that we form a three-person Main Page Committee that would be responsible for updating all of the main page (both left and right) columns. Each member of the Committee would serve a 9-month term and would have to take at least 6 months off before being eligible to serve again. Initial members would be appointed for terms of 3 months, 6 months and 9 months, so that every three months, one person would rotate off the Committee. If there is a disagreement about Main Page content, the three would vote and a majority would decide. Andy could appoint the Committee from among those who volunteer. In this way, Committee members would give their best efforts every day because they would know that they have only 9 months on the job. More people would have an opportunity to edit the Main Page, so there would be less reason to sit on the side lines and snipe at the Committee's work. Please comment on this proposal. Thanks, Wschact 09:33, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

As things stand, only administrators can edit content on the main page. The only admins that regularly add content are Andy, Conservative, and TerryH. Also toss in the occasional contribution from Karajou and Joaquin Martinez. A quick review of user stats reveals that there hasn't been a new admin promoted in over 4 years. So who exactly is supposed to be rotated on and off of this news committee? Logistics aside, what is the ultimate goal of this committee? If it's to change the editorial tone and content of news items, I'm all for it. I just don't see that as a remote possibility. --DonnyC 20:10, 1 May 2013 (EDT) Whatever the mechanism, any improvement in the main page would be welcome. This project started with high aspirations, and I would welcome a return to those aspirations reflected in more care attention being paid to the quality of material presented to newcomers who are curious about the site. Most days it seems to have set itself up to compete with some of the more unhinged conspiracy websites, rather than to attract contributors capable of building one of the most authoritative reference guides in the world. --TonySidaway 01:17, 2 May 2013 (EDT) I set up a debate page to (hopefully) get everyone's opinion, pro and con, on what should be done with the Main Page in general and MPR specifically: Debate:Should there be a separate section on the main page for blogs, advertisements and other non-news items?. I'm sincerely hoping that getting all of the arguments for and against down in one place will allow Aschlafly and the other senior members to voice their opinions along side the rest of us. This will allow everyone too compare all of the facts and opinions without having to jump all around the site. Fnarrow 02:11, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

I think the author of the recent question evolution blog post linking corruption and atheism hasn't looked at the full picture. Three of the top four least corrupt countries are also listed among the most atheist countries, and these countries are all considered more atheistic than North Korea. Further to this, most of the countries considered highly corrupt are also highly religious. I think what this blogger has failed to realise is that they have succeeded only in identifying the one corrupt outlier among atheist nations. WilcoxD 22:54, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

Atheists/agnostics are terrible when it comes to historical ignorance and historical revisionism. See: Soviet Union and morality and Atheism and mass murder and Richard Dawkins, atheist atrocities, and historical revisionism and Atheism and uncharitableness and Militant atheism and Atheism and morality and Atheism and bestiality and Bestiality and Sweden and Atheism and deception and Sexual immorality and Sweden. I hope that clarifies things. Conservative 23:44, 1 May 2013 (EDT) No Cons. It didn't. At least not on the subject being discussed. AlanE 23:57, 1 May 2013 (EDT) I would read all those but they are too wordy. Also, you have failed to show that the person who wrote the QE fan blog did not engage in data cherry picking while attempting to make their point. WilcoxD, with tongue in cheek (olé) 00:34, 2 May 2013 (EDT) I will make things more concise for you. The best mid estimate regarding the loss of life due to atheism is approximately 110,286,000 people between 1917 and 1987 (this does not include pro-abort advocacy).[1] See: Abortion and atheism. Conservative 01:17, 2 May 2013 (EDT) ... but we're talking about government corruption WilcoxD 01:32, 2 May 2013 (EDT) ....and government corruption would perhaps include the established churches that have not been exactly innocent in the mass murder of many over the years. AlanE 01:58, 2 May 2013 (EDT) AlanE, I notice you failed to put up mass murder statistics relating to Christendom that even remotely compares to the atheism and mass murder figures I cited. Don't think I didn't notice. I did. Conservative 02:11, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Wilcox, you don't think that governments that engage in mass murder and promote (or fail to keep in check) other moral rot are invariably corrupt as well? If not, why not? Conservative 02:11, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Cons, there are not a lot of definite statistics concerning the Albigensian crusade, the pre-Soviet pogroms, the massacre at Acre, the St Bartholomew Day massacre, the thousands of burnings at the stake enacted over the years (let's not just kill the non-believers - let's make it as painful as possible - a good Christian thing to do) and so on and so on. Check out the drop in Europe's population from the Thirty Years War in the early 17th century. It goes on forever. Yes Cons. I know so many died in the 20th century, but are you telling me the same would not have happened in previous centuries if the technology had allowed it? Look at history from both sides of the fence, Cons. AlanE 02:45, 2 May 2013 (EDT) AlanE, what technology did Stalin and Mao use that was so revolutionary in terms of killing their own people? We have the same technology, why isn't it being used now on the same scale? Was there a significant decline of atheism in the world in terms of the percentage of people who are atheists? See: Decline of atheism. Also, evolutionists killed a lot of people through incompetence too! See: Trofim Denisovich Lysenko and Great Chinese famine. Also, see this article. Conservative 05:45, 2 May 2013 (EDT) I'd have to agree with AlanE there mate. He is entirely correct on this matter. Dvergne 05:47, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Also when are you going to un-protect April Fools Day so I can reformat and fix the article as it seems someone has reverted it too its previous dreadful state before you protected it. Dvergne 05:51, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Darwinism and meteorology don't mix well? [2] Conservative 05:33, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Ouch, pretty dramatic drop off in readership of your blog over the past few weeks, maybe you should start promoting it more on twitter, facebook, google+, myspace, soundcloud, vine, foursquare, youtube, vimeo, pinterest, path, badoo, bebo, cyworld, formspring, reddit, 4chan, Hi5, instagram, Mobli, Renren, Yammer, Linkedin, Researchgate, wordpress, geocities, Ning, Tumblr and Tea Party community. Successful marketing and promotion through these mediums will almost certainly send your readership through the roof. If it was really effective you may even end up rivaling the pageviews that this great site gets. Dvergne 05:45, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Who said it was my/our blog? I/we certainly did not. Since you are obviously the web traffic expert at Conservapedia, I was wondering how much traffic have you generated to Conservapedia via your content/links/PR? Is it possible the blog author(s) are engaged in activity that you can not readily discern, but will have a long term impact? "...when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near." - Sun Tzu. "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." - Sun Tzu. "The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim." - Sun Tzu. ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????? - Sun Tzu. Conservative 14:07, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

I had trouble getting past the first sentence:Great tasting news blog posts....Less analysis and commentary filling! What a terrible opener. I can now see why the author of that blog chooses to remain anonymous. --DonnyC 14:30, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Who is DonnyC? Conservative 15:04, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Who am I? Someone who's not afraid to walk into the lion's den and maul some lions. --DonnyC 18:05, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Is Jewish. He is also a registered Republican and worked for three years in the Reagan administration (you know, Ronald Reagan, the conservative icon). He started the Military Religious Freedom Foundation because while at the United States Air Force Academy his sons were accused of killing Jesus, and were told they would burn in hell by senior cadets.--CamilleT 17:52, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

I have added a section reguarding the 2011 referendum to: http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal_Democrats but I have made a mistake in referencing and don't know how to fix it. I would appreciate it if one of you good folks could fix it for me. Many thanks--Patmac 21:43, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Fixed. --DonnyC 22:01, 2 May 2013 (EDT) Thanks mate. --Patmac 22:04, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22382098 http://news.sky.com/story/1086321/local-council-elections-ukip-make-big-gains There is a potential big change in British politics. Although you can't rule out the usual mid-term protest vote, there is a real chance UKIP could usurp the Lib Dems as the third party in the next general election. And they are taking votes from all the major parties. It seems that the voters are seeing the EU, or at least British membership of, for what it really is, a mistake.--Patmac 10:11, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Ok don't bother then, I guess real news has no place here--Patmac 08:20, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

A very interesting read. GregG 14:20, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

I don't know why this quote is on the main page; Dr. Scott Todd was clearly making a hypothetical statement about data pointing to an intelligent designer (meaning that he does not concede that it's true) and how the conclusion that there was an intelligent designer is outside the realm of science. Again, this reflects badly on our project, so I will request its removal from the main page. Thanks, GregG 09:11, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

GregG, where is it written that science must exclusively use naturalistic explanations and be illogical? See: Rules of the game. That sounds like atheism to me! Why should scientists allow the religion of atheism to warp their view of reality? Last time I checked the scientific method was originated by a theist and not an atheist. Many miracles never occur in Christendom because of individuals who lack faith and whose worldview is too naturalistic. Second, history is a social science. Using your false view of science. the resurrection of Jesus could never be considered by historians as ever happening. Archaeologist never could consider the possibility that Walls of Jericho fell down by supernatural means. Next Christians having an overly naturalistic worldview is unbiblical. Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father." (John 14:12). The Apostle Paul wrote: "For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power." (1 Corinthians 4:2). The Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy: "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these." (2 Timothy 3:1-5). Next, your objection to the use of this quote reflects badly on you and not on me or this project. By the way, has Kenneth Miller gotten back to you concerning the 15 questions for evolutionists? You still haven't gotten back to me on this matter. Conservative 14:29, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, I don't know if Dr. Scott Todd is an Atheist or not, so that is not the point I'm going to make here. However, when you say "Sounds like Atheism to me" in reaction to his statement that "Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic", you're mistaking the intellectual process of Agnosticism as originally defined by Huxley for the refusal to accept God no matter what. As neither the existence of God as an entity or a person's belief in it, can be physically tested, it therefore cannot be admitted into the scientific process. You have also made this mistake when calling me an Atheist in the past, I very much believe in God, I simply consider myself an "Agnostic Christian" as his existence has not and cannot be proven through the scientific method. Science and Religion should not be forced to confront one another, (an unfortunate activity which both sides tend to partake in...) but rather should be used to support and reinforce one another. Fnarrow 14:47, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Every reputable science text and class since the late eighteenth century says, explicitly or implicitly, that science must exclusively use naturalistic explanations. Any theory that uses non-naturalistic or supernatural explanations is not science. This is nub of the whole science v religion, reason v faith dichotomy. Rafael 14:47, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Rafael, the argument that "every reputable science text and class since the late eighteenth century says" is not a compelling argument. It is not even true. There are certainly Christian schools who don't take this view and their academic performances often exceed the public schools who hold to a naturalistic worldview. Second, even if your claim were true, it is a blatent appeal to authority and illogical. Conservative 14:53, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Fnarrow, the term "agnostic Christian" is an oxymoron. You are merely double-minded and Scripture warns about being double-minded. James wrote: "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." (James 1:8). Conservative 15:11, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Perhaps you should stick to the fifteen questions because you are way, way off the mark on the philosophy of science. Science insists on naturalism because it is an empirical method - the antithesis of a blatant appeal to authority. Note that word: method - not a body of knowledge, not a popularity contest but a process. Yes, Christian schools often do very well academically - I went to one myself - but literature, philosophy, art, languages, history, economics and any number of other disciplines - including arguably psychology and some branches of psychiatry - don't require a naturalistic world view. Social sciences are not science; although they use some of the techniques science uses, the scientific method does not fit them properly. The priests and brothers who ran my school were very clear on the difference between the world of the flesh, the concrete world, the world of reason, and the Kingdom of God, the realm of values, faith and the metaphysical. Please, please, don't embarrass yourself further - you are trying to compare apples and bricks. Both are necessary, but a house built of apples is as pointless as a brick sandwich. Rafael 16:57, 5 May 2013 (EDT) By the way, churches which have embrace Darwinism and a more naturalistic worldview, not only do not often experience miracles, but they are often shrinking. And this is happening particularly in the Western World. These churches are often dead churches which deny the power of God. Christian groups which embrace the supernatural and in regions where a naturalistic worldview is less prevalent among Christians, there is a big growth in the number of adherents of Christianity. For example, in Germany, creationist churches are growing while Darwinist churches are shrinking. In addition, pentecostal/charasmatic churches are growing quickly in both the Western World and globally as well.[3] In addition, not only are biblical creation and biblical creation growing in adherents, but they are both true as can be seen HERE.

Conservative 15:30, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Conservative, are you perhaps confused by the distinction between Philosophical Naturalism and Methodological Naturalim? It is difficult to test for , or take into account, the existence of God in any way that holds scientific rigor. This does not mean that God does not exist; it merely means that God is ineffable to scientists.--DTSavage 15:39, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

DTSavage, I am not confused. It is you who are confused. Why don't you show me an ardent advocate of methodological naturalism or group of people who have done this who are known to have the miraculous in their lives. It is the impotent, foolish, sickly, and dying so-called Christian groups who are advocating methodological naturalism while the vibrant and intellectually honest Christians are opposing this ideology. Again, not only are biblical creationists/Christians growing in adherents, but they are advocating a true worldview as can be seen HERE. The lack of intellectual honesty among ardent evolutionists is not surprising given that a university study showed a morals decline among adherents of Darwinism.[4] The university study showed that evolutionists are more likely to be whores and whoremongers than creationists. Conservative 16:51, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, I am currently doing my best to do scientific research, at least in the field of ecology (which is not identical to evolution), which is what I am studying. How would you suggest I go about including God in my research in a way that is scientifically rigorous?--DTSavage 19:26, 5 May 2013 (EDT) DTSavage, I don't believe you are sincere in your question. Why don't you demonstrate your sincerity by having you and another Darwinist debate Shockofgod and VivaYehshua on the 15 questions for evolutionists. Unless of course, you are too afraid to do so! Conservative 19:44, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, I will happily discuss (I don't believe it needs to be a debate) whether or not God is a factor that can, or should, be included in scientific research. I don't believe that the 15 questions for evolutionists are relevant to the current discussion.--DTSavage 19:58, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Rafael, re: the European priests/brothers: What is European Roman Catholicism know for? A shrinking body of adherents and pediphilia scandals. As you know, I am a Protestant, but even I will admit that charasmatic Catholicism is growing. They hold less to the anti-supernaturalism that infects so many European Roman Catholics. I am betting that they are more supportive of motherhood (less selfish, etc.) and lose less of their adherents to atheism/agnosticism (atheism is a weak ideology that tends to lose more of their adherents[5]). Again, as far as Protestant Christianity, not only are biblical creationists/Christians growing in adherents, but they are advocating a true worldview as can be seen HERE.

Darwinism is know for uncharitableness (Social Darwinism), evolutionary racism, sexual immorality and it underpins the murderous regimes of Communism and Nazism. See: Social effects of the theory of evolution. And again, the lack of intellectual honesty among ardent evolutionists is not surprising given that a university study showed a morals decline among adherents of Darwinism.[6]The university study showed that evolutionists are more likely to be whores and whoremongers than creationists. Conservative 18:01, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

As usual, you fail to engage with question at hand and instead run around like a terrier in a field full of rabbits, wagging your tail with glee while not catching anything. Stick to the fifteen questions and name calling and stuff that doesn't require any rigour. Rafael 14:10, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Conservative

Please read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9934538/Red-Nose-Day-2013-Night-of-comedy-raises-record-75m.html

This is the charitableness of a mostly "Darwinist" nation. Converted to USD that is about $1.50 given per person. Have you any reference to a "Creationist" country giving more? And your link to Whores and Warmongers, despite being offensive, I would like you to think of which side of the political spectrum supports war more, you don't see many conservative anti war protestors, they are overwhelmingly liberal. And please don't accuse me of being anti-war, I am not, In fact I have been there and got the T Shirt to prove it. I am in support of the Afghan war in particular, and not for any ideological reasons. If the Taliban win control in Afghanistan there is a good chance they will gain control in Pakistan, who have the bomb, drop one on Delhi and we will have a bloody mess like the world has not seen since WW2. --Patmac 18:21, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac and other liberals: Please don't waste my time with anecdotal evidence. Give me evidence that holds up to more Ceteris paribus like conditions. And we know that American religious conservatives give more to charity per capita than American liberal evolutionists. See: Liberals and uncharitableness and Atheism and uncharitableness (We know that liberals are more likely to be Darwinists. See: Evolution and liberalism). Furthermore, we know that liberal religionists and atheists/evolutionists tend to be more superstitious than religious conservatives. See: Irreligion and superstition. Why are liberals/Darwinists/atheists/agnostics such big tightwads and so prone to believing bunkum?Conservative 19:24, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Since this discussion of the role of methodological naturalism and the philosophy of science has been effectively derailed, I would like to interject with a question for User:Conservative: Can you provide an example of something miraculous that has occurred in your own personal life? --DonnyC 19:44, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

DonnyC, I have had several supernatural events occur in my life. And no signs or accounts of the supernatural will be given to Darwinists until you agree to the debate Shockofgod and VivaYehshua in an oral creation vs. evolution debate on the 15 questions for evolutionists which will be distributed to tens of thousands of people! Show me your sincerity and that you are not merely a stubborn lot of liars and insincere posers! Conservative 19:51, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, I can understand your reluctance to share your supernatural experiences. Whatever those experiences were, I am sure you reached the conclusion that they were supernatural/miraculous because you were unable to find a naturalistic explanation for the event. As I am sure you don't regularly attribute mundane events like finding your freezer stocked with your favorite flavor of Hot Pockets to supernatural causes. That is all science is, it is the attempt to exhaust all naturalistic explanations for an observed phenomenon. And factoring in the supernatural from the beginning, completely defeats the purpose of doing science. --DonnyC 20:18, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Attention Darwinists: I am afraid you have been so thoroughly put to shame in this debate/discussion that I am just going to have to declare victory at this point and attend to more important matters. Feel free to engage in last wordism though. :) Conservative 20:10, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Is this the same shockofgod who was banned from you tube for phishing? Stealing others log on details? Does not sound like someone who can be trusted to me. Oh, you may declare victory but I for one, do not admit defeat--Patmac 20:13, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

First of all, history is NOT a science. Secondly, I may be wrong in what is the intent of the statement here, but naturalistic ideas are a necessity in science because science requires theories and hypotheses to be testable. Religion fundamentally asks that we take the belief in God on faith, and that it is not something that can be tested but must be based on trust. That is why religion is not and never can be science. SJCootware 20:15, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

Conservative, what gives you the right to judge the sincerity of my belief in God? I am not of two minds, I am of one mind and that mind is both clear and stable. Due to this, I am able to separate Religion (which studies and explains the SUPERnatural) from Science (which studies and explains the NATURAL). These are two entirely separate systems and therefore cannot possibly contradict one another in the mind of someone who is being honest with themselves and with others. Also, I'm increasingly concerned with your misunderstanding of the definition of "Agnosticism" for it is not a religion but merely a logical process in which one studies the physical evidence available with no regard for preconceived notions or beliefs and thereby allows himself (or herself) to discover the truth of anything with is knowable through scientific discovery. Therefore, there is contradiction in considering myself an "Agnostic Christian" as it simply means that I believe God lies beyond the detection of science (Supernatural and therefore a subject of religious study) and cannot be proven nor disproven through any physical means; this is the "Agnostic" part of the label. The "Christian" part of the label is defined through the fact that I know in my heart/mind/soul/whatever you want to call it that God exists. I will close by saying that I find it not only personally insulting, but insulting to Christians everywhere when you start labeling those who disagree with you as being a "Darwinist", "Atheist" or other title while knowing nothing about what truth God has placed in their heart. When you use these label people with these names and then proceed to state that "evolutionists are more likely to be whores/whoremongers" you are indirectly suggesting that the users of this site whom you are attacking are themselves likely to be "whores/whoremongers." I don't know what particular branch of Christianity you identify yourself with, but I've never personally experienced one which would encourage their followers to make blind accusations like that. I know I have no power here, but I have to say that I would much appreciate it if you could from this point forward debate the topic at hand instead of making personal attacks on the other members here. Thanks, Fnarrow 23:17, 5 May 2013 (EDT) Leave him alone mate, he is right here, it seems you are too afraid to debate the 15 questions of evolution. You are narrowminded Fnarrow.Snarrow 08:09, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

SJCootware,

Maybe it is against my better judgement, but I am responding to your post. How is naturalism/atheism or methodological naturalism testable? Do you possess some crystal ball showing that the miraculous does not happen in the course of past events? Did the apostles of Christ, who claimed to be eyewitnesses, die for a lie and the resurrection of Jesus Christ never occurred despite the excellent evidence for it? If so, what is your alternative naturalistic explanation for the apostles' behavior and why is it better than the Christian explanation for Christianity? What proof and evidence do you have that naturalism is correct? What scientific proof do you have the methodological naturalism is a correct procedure and that it trumps logic and evidence?[7]

Second, I did not say history is science. I said history is a social science. And historians (at least good historians) weigh evidence using various reasonable procedures and logic.

Third, I cite: "The scientific method traditionally has required experimental observation and replication. The fact that macroevolution (as distinct from microevolution) has never been observed would seem to exclude it from the domain of true science. Even Ernst Mayr, the dean of living evolutionists, longtime professor of biology at Harvard, who has alleged that evolution is a "simple fact," nevertheless agrees that it is an "historical science" for which "laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques" by which to explain it." [8] Conservative 14:39, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

It seems that some here want to dismiss God with a simple "can't-pass-the-falsifiability" test. Since dogma can work both ways, here's an example from the pic on the right. The caption below reads "Heads of four titanotheres, showing progressive stages of development." This work was done by an evolutionist; this caption was done by an evolutionist. So, my questions are...

1. Is this a true statement? 2. How is this a true statement? 3. Was this example subject to "falsifyability" testing? 4. From where and by what methods did the author of this work get his evidence that makes the caption true? Karajou 01:31, 6 May 2013 (EDT) I appreciate the example, but I at least, speaking as someone in the sciences, am not trying to dismiss God by saying that God can't be falsified. I'm just saying that I have absolutely no idea how to incorporate God into research in a Scientific context. I asked Conservative for his opinion on the subject, but he did not answer me. I am sincerely curious how this might be done, because I believe that if God could be incorporated into scientifically rigorous research, this would allow for increased cooperation between science and religion, which is likely far better for society than the two being at odds.--DTSavage 01:38, 6 May 2013 (EDT) DTSavage, while I still have doubts about your sincerity of alleged evolutionary beliefs, I thought I would share these articles nonetheless since the expression of your so-called Darwinism beliefs seems less militant at this juncture: Ecology, biodiversity and Creation and Toward a biblical basis for ecology, with applications in mycorrhizal symbioses in orchids and Symbiotic relationships. Conservative 10:37, 6 May 2013 (EDT) Thanks, Conservative. Reading those articles has definitely given me some food for thought.--DTSavage 13:24, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

As a variable, God is uncontrollable, undetectable, unpredictable, and most importantly, unrepeatable. So the question remains, how would a scientist incorporate God into their research? --DonnyC 14:30, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Naturalism and methodological naturalism are untestable notions via the scientific method. Also, origins science is a historical science and not operational science.[9] Conservative 15:21, 6 May 2013 (EDT) Abraham Lincoln was fond of this riddle: If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does have a dog have? Four, because no matter what you call it, it's still a tail. Rafael 15:25, 6 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, you're not answering the question. My work encompasses both of what you would call "operational" and "historical" science. So my question is, how am I supposed to account for an uncontrollable, undetectable, unpredictable, and unrepeatable variable in my work? --DonnyC 15:28, 6 May 2013 (EDT) DonnyC, origins science is a historical science and good historians (historians are social scientists) have reasonable procedures for weighing historical evidence.[10][11] Therefore, when evaluating claims of God intervening in history, there are reasonable methods to ascertain the probability of those claims being true or untrue. For example, see: Origins science and avoiding historical fallacies and Historicity of Jesus and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and History Second, how are you going to account for the fact that naturalism and methodological naturalism are untestable notions using the scientific method - especially in the light of the fact that the scientific method was originated by a theist(s) and not an atheist and that modern science was launched in a Christianized Europe? See: Christianity and science. Also, what dramatic breakthroughs did science have as a result of atheism? Is atheism testable using the scientific method? Can you show that atheism has had a better effect on science than Christian influence on science? See: Christianity and science Next, if you contend that atheism/naturalism and methodological naturalism have had a better influence on science than biblical Christianity, how do you explain that the irreligious and adherents of liberal theology are more superstitious than theologically conservative, Protestant Bible believers? See: Irreligion and superstition. Lastly, I cite: "The scientific method traditionally has required experimental observation and replication. The fact that macroevolution (as distinct from microevolution) has never been observed would seem to exclude it from the domain of true science. Even Ernst Mayr, the dean of living evolutionists, longtime professor of biology at Harvard, who has alleged that evolution is a "simple fact," nevertheless agrees that it is an "historical science" for which "laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques" by which to explain it." [12] 16:08, 6 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, could you please clarify this sentence "Therefore, God intervening in history has reasonable methods to ascertain various supernatural claims in relation to their historicity." I was with you up until that point but then lost the thread... I don't know if it was simply a typo/omitted word or something I'm just not reading correctly, but either way I'd appreciate some clarification as to what you meant so I can come to an accurate conclusion regarding your statements. Thanks, Fnarrow 17:01, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Fnarrow, thanks. I revised the sentence (additional clarification was provided). Conservative 17:31, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

No problem, that's what I figured you had meant, but I didn't want to make any assumptions. Fnarrow 17:42, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Is this a matter for debate? Naturalism and methodological naturalism are positions or stances, rather than theories which can be confirmed or disproved.

Atheists frequently resort to circular reasoning, out of desperation to deny any possibility of God's existence. First they confine science to physical science, insisting that the supernatural cannot be studied and should not be considered. Then they conclude that the only plausible source the multitude of species (current and historical) is the product of physical causes and "natural selection". Finally, if plants, animals and people have come into existence via physical causes alone, there is no need to postulate a Creator.

One flaw in this argument is the assumption that the supernatural cannot be studied. Another is the discovery, promoted by intelligent design theorists, that organisms like the flagellum are irreducible complex.

I suggest that we work together to describe all three theories of human and biological origins. Let's make the stances (and theories) easily understandable to our readers, and stop wasting editorial space trying to convince each other here.

I'd like to see comprehensive articles on Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, and the Theory of Evolution. After that we can more easily outline and describe the arguments for and against these ideas. --Ed Poor Talk 08:43, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Quite a bit of conflict, unrulyness and down right undemocratic things happening in General Election in Malaysia at the moment which mainstream media seem to be ignoring. Might be worth a link say what happens when military strongmen control government instead of the people, which is how it should be. DickVCome say g'day ay 09:23, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

No. Well actually I've found plenty, but they were in centuries that were already full. WilcoxD 19:36, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Please go ahead and add the conservative word into the list under the correct century. The exponential growth theory is just a theory. The data should not be trimmed to shoehorn in the theory. Wschact 22:25, 6 May 2013 (EDT) I've previously added several to different centuries, but it so happened that none of the ones that affected the geometric doubling were deemed Conservative enough. I've also tried correcting several erroneous entries, but if this affected the doubling then these corrections were also removed. WilcoxD 23:43, 6 May 2013 (EDT) Wschact, when you say 'The exponential growth theory is just a theory', can you explain what that theory actually is? I understand that it's an observation (even though some may question the accuracy of the observation for reasons mentioned above), but to call it a theory implies a postulated mechanism for how the observed phenomenon comes about. What is that mechanism? --DHouser 08:15, 7 May 2013 (EDT) I gather Andy is using terms like theory and hypothesis interchangeably. Don't read too much into it. He simply noticed that the number of terms seemed to be growing exponentially. Let's not get sidetracked. --Ed Poor Talk 08:29, 7 May 2013 (EDT) I believe the theory has something to do with how ideas or ideology spread. In any event, one way to test the theory would be to divide the data by 100 year intervals that begin at a different point, say 1620, 1720, 1820, etc. If the theory was valid, and not the result of shoehorned data, it would fit no matter how you shifted the measuring intervals. Wschact 02:17, 10 May 2013 (EDT) That's a nice way to re-analyse the data, but my interpretation is that the 'theory' is a bit more precise than that. We're not looking at just a general exponential trend, but precise doubling every century, with no margin for error. For that to occur would require some kind of supernatural (divine) intervention, and as such it would seem likely that the intelligence behind the intervention would base the sequence around accepted human time-scales such as the calendar century.--DHouser 08:11, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

http://thebatavian.com/howard-owens/three-batavia-churches-hit-anti-religious-graffiti/37315 Would anyone consider this "respectfully disagreeing?" ZetaSonic 01:54, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

He/they are just mad that the father of secular humanism, Paul Kurtz, who lived in the Buffalo metropolitan area, left no legacy and he received a "shattering blow" to this atheism related endeavors via the hands of his fellow atheists shortly before he died Et tu, Bruti? The Roman Empire was no match for Christianity and neither was the atheist faction "secular humanism". Conservative 23:14, 7 May 2013 (EDT) I think I'm starting to enjoy your version of reality Conservative. I'm sure the vandal(s) was choking down God-hating tears as he whispered "this is for you Paul Kurtz" while he/they committed his/their crime. --DonnyC 23:42, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Love it!! Absolutely love it!!!! "Ripped to Sheds indeed. Made my day! Thank you! AlanE 01:46, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

The district is an R+11. This statement would be like saying the ideology of Republicans is a loser even when the opponent has a big scandal when having looked at Charles Rangel's results in 2010. Just as Rangel took a D+43 and got a result consistent with a D+31, Sanford took an R+11 and got results consistent with an R+5. --SJCootware 2:08, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

It seems to me there was a very large debate in this area earlier today when I was unable to edit... guess I must be misremembering.

The keyword here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink. Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.

Welcome to 1984, I guess old Mr. Orwell was off by less than 30 years, not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Fnarrow 23:51, 8 May 2013 (EDT)

May 9, 2013: Ascension of Jesus --AugustO 05:36, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Thank you introducing some substance. It's far more important than the "amusing" creationist vs evolutionist story et al. I'm starting to wonder whether this site hasn't reached a tipping point of irrelevant and unimportant nonsense. Rafael 08:35, 9 May 2013 (EDT) Thanks - unfortunately, it didn't make it to the main page. What a pity - another chance missed to remind us of our Christian teachings. --AugustO 01:56, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Sheds? Really? Seems to be an error. The question for me is: should I point it out or follow User:DonnyC's advise: I'd point out a spelling error in your post... but I'm worried that in your excited state that you would rip me to sheds. This is even more a conundrum as User:DonnyC was ripped to shreds by User:Conservative: a block of three month for a quite productive editor (see e.g. Judges 1-7 or Habakkuk) - seems to be only a sign of a bruised ego...

BTW: User:DawsonT should not have been blocked for violating the 90/10 rule, but for trolling: He made only one edit - a total of five words - and was answered with a 500+ words diatribe! Very effective trolling indeed. And after writing some thousand words, User:Conservative was to tired to even read a paragraph of less than 150 words, but instead blocked the editor under some pretext some time later. IMO, this block should be undone, and User:DonnyC reinstated without silly conditions like If you decide to return after your 3 month block, there will be a 3 month probationary period where you will not have main page talk privileges.

--AugustO 07:57, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

AugustO, I am not ever going to change my view of the 90/10 rule. My view is that if someone creates some worthless contribution on a talk page on his first edit, I can block them. They created poor content and have a 100/100 talk page ratio. Second, changing DonnyC's block is not on my radar as far as my priorities because I am not changing it. If DonnyC engages in that type of behavior again, the block is going to be longer. Conservative 12:12, 9 May 2013 (EDT) changing DonnyC's block is not on my radar as far as my priorities because I am not changing it that doesn't make much sense, I'm afraid: it's just circular reasoning... --AugustO 12:20, 9 May 2013 (EDT) BTW, could you please bother to correct the typo on MPR? I don't care what your blog looks like, but on the Main Page of Conservapedia, I prefer correct spelling - that has nothing to do with style over substance, but with looking professional. --AugustO 12:30, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

AugustO, for someone who is interested in good writing, you are being very unclear about what typo is on the main page. Second, I am not going to spend a lot of time justifying my block with DonnyC with you. The block was just and if you don't like it, I don't care. I think you are being unreasonable. I have discussions with evolutionists like HunterC as he will actually have a discussion and address what the other party is saying. I also find liberals are often not willing to debate anyone of the opposition because they have little to no confidence in what they are spouting. Penn Jillette is a prime example. DonnyC just wants to be a heckler and ignore what the other party is saying. He also has not created much content in terms of articles. I am not going to put up with it. Conservative 12:52, 9 May 2013 (EDT

You must be kidding - on both accounts! Haven't you been quite successful in a spelling-bee? --AugustO 12:47, 9 May 2013 (EDT) I revised my above post. Second, if you are going to be purposefully obtuse about a matter that you supposedly want fixed on the main page, then I have a very low priority with both of your requests. Conservative 12:52, 9 May 2013 (EDT) This begs the question who or what is obtuse: The section is titled Darwinism will be ripped to sheds The first sentence of this section is Sheds? Really? Seems to be an error. Even Dr. Watson could have figured this one out! --AugustO 13:04, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Thanks. Second, I have a number of deadlines I have to meet. I wasn't going to search the main page for a typo for someone who was purposefully being unclear. If you don't like that, that's tough enchiladas, my friend! :) Conservative 13:13, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Conservative, less than 3 weeks ago you said you were going to tone it down, when in fact you have got worse. You are banning people for breaking the 90/10 rule, and at the same time you have filled this talk page with enough words to fill a small novel, a novel where the same chapter is repeated again and again, accusing good honest folk of being Darwinist, liberal etc, etc. Please, pause and take stock because right now you acting like a dictator, and dare I say it, you are showing many liberal traits in doing so. Act like a good conservative, argue and defend your view but show some respect to those who hold differing views. Respect is a conservative value yet you show none and then wonder why you receive none. --Patmac 13:14, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

purposefully being unclear? I wasn't unclear at all - and especially not purposefully. Please refrain from such groundless accusations. Frankly - as AlanE above - I thought you were able to remember and recognize what you have written on the Main Page only yesterday. --AugustO 14:12, 9 May 2013 (EDT) In your spelling bee snarky comment you were purposefully being unclear about the typo. Anyways, I met my most pressing deadline. By the way, please refrain from snarky comments. Frankly, I thought you were capable of less snarky comments! :) I do recall someone recently asking for more decorum. My razor sharp mind definitely does recall you wanting more diplomacy/decorum on this talk page. I guess that doesn't apply to you. Typical liberal/Darwinist hypocrisy! :) Conservative 15:33, 9 May 2013 (EDT) Above, your razor-sharp mind seemed to have failed you. The typo was mentioned three times, by User:AlanE, User:DonnyC and me. It just seemed to be inconceivable that you didn't recognize the phrase Darwinism will be ripped to sheds which you have written a couple of hours ago and which is cunningly concealed in the very title of this section. BTW, I asked for manners, that doesn't mean that you may not get testy - but you shouldn't sling words around which are seen as insults on this site, like liberal. --AugustO 16:06, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

I do regret that deadline pressures contributed to me missing AlanE's notice of the typo.

I don't regret not paying close attention to recent DonnyC posts subsequent to him intentionally dodging my recent response to him. You don't have to worry about DonnyC. Now that he is being held accountable and actually has to respond to creationist interlocutors on the main page talk page instead of stonewalling their responses, he has been effectively defanged. And I hear some howling on the horizon. It sounds like a like a pack of hungry biblical creation dire wolves ready to rip big chunks of meat out of Darwinist bunkum! :) Those 15 questions for evolutionists are not going away and it is VERY OBVIOUS that evolutionists have not satisfactorily answered them. Conservative 17:36, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Conservative, you totally ignored my last entry, you still attack. And I for one support Donnyc. How about we have a vote about Donny being unblocked. I vote yes--Patmac 18:29, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Feel free to have as many votes as you want Darwinists. It is not going to change my decision! Personal remark removed. The atheist/evolutionist who tried to ignore my questions to him and the data I provided and not offer a response. Let's have a pity party! Conservative 21:11, 9 May 2013 (EDT) Your precious 15 questions have been answered in innumerable venues. That you lack the competence to recognize that is your fault, not ours. JimmyDykes 13:07, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

If you support it, please feel free to take it up with Mr. Schlafly. brenden 13:23, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

"In a previous post, I pointed that wolf packs can be very aggressive and sometimes conduct their attacks for over 24 hours on a particular prey. Wolves have a lot of endurance. I have been thinking of working out twice in a day at a local Young Man Christian Association. In case you are an atheist, I am referring to a YMCA! The Question Evolution! Campaign is a worldwide grassroots movement that will see a lot of expansion in 2013. When creationists intensify their round the clock attacks on Darwinism, I certainly don't want to experience fatigue when I join the fray!"[13]

He/she must have a Chuck Norris Total Gym too. :) He/she does not sound like an evolutionist slob who is not familiar with exercise science, nutritional science and medical science. See: Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese. I thought evolutionist loved science and had a fundamental understanding of applied biology! Conservative 21:52, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

If you do work out twice a day, my advice would be to take advice on what you are doing. Muscle building works by ripping or tearing existing tissue and protein through diet "mends" the tears and builds more muscle tissue. I don't know your age but I am guessing 35+ and after that age the whole process of repair takes longer and it is not as efficient, the main reason that endurance sportsmen retire at about that age. Without knowing your circumstances, I would suggest 45 mins to an hour once a day is enough, and try to do different things each day, example would be weights on one day, cycling rowing or running on the second etc, and give yourself 2 days clear a week.--Patmac 22:19, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Jack Lalane pulls 70 boats on 70th birthday Evolutionists are such wimps! Conservative 22:28, 9 May 2013 (EDT) I would be very interested in seeing your progress Conservative. Perhaps if you post a before photo now and then in a few months and after photo. Perhaps a lovely photo with your lovely wife and children also, will really show up those evolutionists and convince them that you will tear them to shreds. Darwinism could not possibly survive your assault!! Ole Ole. --DamianJohn 22:29, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

I don't believe Ranulph Fiennes is a creationist, but then he is only 68.--Patmac 22:39, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

I would like to see a before and after picture of Trent and Ed Brayton, but I am not holding my breath. From what I understand Trent isn't a big fan of motivation speakers who stress the importance of goals such as Zig Ziglar. :) Zig Ziglar lost a lot of weight. Has Trent? To use a favorite saying of Trent, "The proof is in the pudding!". :) Conservative 22:49, 9 May 2013 (EDT) I agree with you Conservative. So many of the evolutionists are fat and living alone. Hell, I'll bet half of the faceless Darwinists that hang around on the internet are in some form of institution. If they would only turn to the power of Creationism run through the QE! blog they would instantly become more popular with the ladies, especially Latinas!!! Care to share some more of your secrets for living well? --DamianJohn 22:57, 9 May 2013 (EDT) Damian, I see you left out an Ole a while ago...and three acutes - here, have these... é, é, é. AlanE 23:08, 9 May 2013 (EDT)

Oh, and by the way, Cons. the verb is "breathe", the noun is "breath". You breathe (at least I do) you have a breath. So, it should be "I am not holding my breath", not "I am not holding my breathe" as you wrote above. It's all do to with the wonderful complexities of our beautiful language. I spell this out because I don't want to have to plough (plow) through another 1000+ words of sheds v shreds. Okay? ````

According to most dictionaries, "anyway" is the correct spelling of the word. :-) Wschact 02:09, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

I was under the impression that we had agreed upon a more comprehensive policies of using informative titles on the Main Page right, a while back? brenden 13:38, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Specifically, I think it could be reworded as

Prominent leftist websites experience drop in traffic According to Alexa, total net traffic for some atheist websites is decreasing... (continue on) brenden 13:41, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Brenden, I don't think that website has much influence. The intelligentsia certainly don't respect it and I don't think that they have there own Wikipedia article yet. If course, this is quite ironic since the founder of that wiki was booted after he insisted via an edit war that intelligent design is not science because it did not have enough high profile science journals endorsing it (science is not a voting both. For example, Galileo Galilei and Nicolaus Copernicus were in the minority but they were right). In addition, if austerity measures fully hit the Western World which seems likely, I don't think their leftism will be very fashionable. Communism is certainly less popular in Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed economically. Lastly, I couldn't put their crowning achievement on the main page because the topic of colonics would be off-putting to a lot of people. :) Many people are enjoying their Spring in North America, but the editors of that wiki are obsessing about other people's colons. :)Conservative 14:17, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Editors other than "Conservative" - I've got a serious question for you. It's even more difficult to take this site seriously when so many people are doing what is tantamount to trolling. "Conservative" posts something stupid and sometimes even trolls you guys by repeating it on this talk page. You guys predictably post some concern. Here's the question - have you ever once, one single time, ever had a satisfying exchange with "Conservative"? He does not admit fault. He is not humble. He taunts and insults you, calls you names, and raises absurd irrelevant nonsense, anything but responding to you seriously. What is the point of even talking to him? Seriously. Has it ever been a productive use of your time? Just don't do it and you'll find that you can go along and get along a lot better in this world. Get over yourselves and do something better with your time. Nate 14:31, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Seriously. User:C. All it would take is 20 seconds to highlight the rewording, press Ctrl-C, open up Main page right, and replacing your previous title. brenden 14:33, 10 May 2013 (EDT) Nate, I see the proud, liberal Roman Catholic predictably defends the atheists. You did say you were proud to be a Roman Catholic and then cited some family history and relatives who had some posts in the Roman Catholic Catholic Church, didn't you? The Apostle Paul wrote: "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" - Philippians 3: 3-9. Nate, the Apostle Paul did not emphasize his family line (the flesh) in relation to his religion, why do you? Just admit it. This is a case of my enemies enemy is my friend. Conservative 14:43, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Am I missing something? The graph on the QE blog shows the atheist site is GROWING in popularity.

I checked on Alexa itself and, yes, there it is. The atheist wiki is showing an upward trend.

Then I compared the atheist wiki with this site and I was shocked. Deeply shocked. Even allowing for the blip at the end of last year, this site is trending DOWN and quite dramatically down.

What's more, the atheist site has much higher rankings in Global and US traffic.

I wondered recently if this site had reached a tipping point. The data says "more than likely".

So, instead of endless links to yah-boo-sucks blogs that often backfire - like this one - we should take stock and work out how to stop the rot. Rafael 14:44, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Rafael, who am I going to believe? You or my own eyes? I can see that the global marketshare of the website has dropped since the beginning of 2013 according to Alexa. Stop making excuses for them. Conservative 14:51, 10 May 2013 (EDT) Brenden, I notice you did not answer my question about your worldview. Just as I suspected! Another public school indoctrinated atheist who can't spell the word atheist due to his substandard schooling! Conservative 14:56, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

User Conservative. Can you please post the graph in question here? It's beyond my technical skills.

That way, our colleagues can see for themselves and decide whether my conclusions stands. Rafael 15:07, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Two questions, What is a voting both and why does being a member of the old established church make somebody a liberal? Insulting RCs won't help fight atheists CamD 15:10, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Rafael, a few other points. First, you do not know how far my/our arm reaches on the internet! :) The internet is a very big place with many websites/blogs/social media accounts. "Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate." - Sun Tzu. Second, you are not privy to Conservapedia's plans for the future. Only the select few in the innermost of innermost circles know this! Are some articles targeted for higher prominence in the future when the timing is right? "When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing. The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim." - Sun Tzu. On the other hand, for all you know, my/our could be merely active at Conservapedia! Conservative 16:20, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Both very good points, User C. I hope the plans for Conservapedia can turn it around and give it some credibility again.

Talking of your global reach, do you remember the Whitehouse petition to stop commemorating Darwin Day? The one you and the QE blog promoted back in January? It barely achieved 100 of the 100,000 signatures needed. It doesn't take an MBA to hear the alarm bells and see the red lights flashing there but has anyone taken stock? Has anyone stopped to work out how it could be better next time around? Or is doubling down the only strategy they know?

By the way, can you please post the graph I asked for? A similar Alexa graph for this site would also be enlightening, but I realise you are a busy man. Rafael 15:47, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Rafael, you don't need a graph. You can can see for yourself at the blog article. Second, how much was that survey promoted? Did someone post it on the internet and then move on to other things. Many people start things and then don't complete their work. That is very common. What is your point? If you are making a point, I don't think it is a very big one. Bottom line, global creationism is growing rapidly and unlike Darwinism, it is true.[14] Lastly, why are you referring to me/us as you? Also, why are you saying I/we are a "busy man". Do you know the gender of me/us? Do you know my/our schedule today? Conservative 16:16, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

I strongly suggest our colleagues follow the QE link and see for themselves. They might also wonder why you didn't want to post the graph for discussion here. Rafael 16:32, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

I suspect Rafael uses the pronoun "You", because typing out I/we or me/us or you/you people is pedantic, and frankly looks as if the person was addressing an imaginary set of people. brenden 17:26, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Brenden, you still haven't said whether you are an atheist yet. Given the deep shamelessfulness of being an atheist, I can understand if you don't want to say that you are. Was this just an oversight on your part? There must be a reason why you are not answering this question. What is it? Conservative 17:52, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate." - Sun Tzu. In all seriousness, my religious views are none of your business, and any further requests about them will be ignored. We are at Conservapedia to build an encyclopedia, not to engage in silly side-shows every time a suggestion or criticism is raised on the Main Page Talk. brenden 23:30, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's the current rankings (and logically their impact) for a few websites:

Wikipedia- Alexa Traffic Rank: 6 United States Traffic Rank in US: 8

The - 'Athiest wiki' (RW) - Alexa Traffic Rank: 36,464 United States Traffic Rank in US: 12,452

Creation.com (CMI) Alexa Traffic Rank: 68,730 United States Traffic Rank in US: 22,752

Conservapedia - Alexa Traffic Rank: 69,714 Traffic Rank in US: 19,144

The Question Evolution! Blog - Alexa Traffic Rank: 3,418,874 United States Traffic Rank in US: 494,937

EJamesW 15:25, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

You do not know how far my/our arm reaches on the internet! :) The internet is a very big place with many websites/blogs/social media accounts. "Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate." - Sun Tzu. You see, unlike some proud liberals who brag about their family in relation to their religion (despite the fact that the Apostle Paul did not), I/we could be quite content to quietly exert his/her/our influence on the internet. "Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is master of his enemy's fate." - Sun Tzu On the other hand, for all you know, my/our could be merely active at Conservapedia! Conservative 15:57, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

I don't think EJW was talking about you. Rafael 15:59, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

No problem, my/our mistake. Conservative 16:00, 10 May 2013 (EDT) -) Rafael 1632, 10 May 2013 (EDT) By the way, we all know: why a certain website was launched, why they obsessively still focus on CP and why they scurry around like hamsters creating content when I/we point out their Alexa rankings are dropping! Dance gentlemen, dance! And remember, no matter what heights they may achieve in web traffic, it will always be a reflection of how utterly obsessed they are with Aschlafly, lowly me/us (a bondservant(s) of the Most High who mostly cites the work of others in CP articles and has some essays and humor pieces) and with God Almighty! "Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist there is no God." - Heywood Broun Conservative 16:40, 10 May 2013 (EDT) Given that the website site traffic is irrelevant, should the article be removed? Especially since it's about an atheist Web site that matters little. Nine 17:07, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

I think it is best left up since it humbles their socially challenged, oversized, atheist, nerd egos. It will serve as a reminder to them of their lowly place on God's earth. In addition, it directs them to the blog article which reminds them that there is more to life than colonics and colons. Conservative 17:41, 10 May 2013 (EDT)

A few things that have me scratching my head a bit about the site...

1. Why is there so much focus on Christianity, atheism, spirituality, secularism, etc. rather than on actual conservative issues? Why are there over 10 "atheism and ____" pages, and yet the page on free market, supply side economic, investment, and other important conservative issues practically untouched?

2. Why are the pages about opposing world views (e.g. liberalism, Keynesian economics, Barack Obama) so much longer and so much more frequently updated than pages about our own views? Conservatism is about so much more than attacking non-conservatives. call me crazy, but I feel that conservative views are strong and substantial enough to stand on their own merit, and informing people of our own view is far more effective than dismantling opposing views.

3. Why is everyone on this site so obsessed with atheism? If someone could answer this without reversing the question to something like "Why are atheists so obsessed with gods?", that would be all the more substantial. Attacking atheism isn't going to get us back the senate and the Whitehouse, and it certainly isn't going to get us out of the recession that was brought on by liberal fiscal policies.

So someone please address these issues so that perhaps the site can really be a good representation of the American conservative world view? KatieKomori 17:19, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

I totally Agree. As a Conservative Atheist sites like these make me disenchanted with conservatism. I wonder when users like Conservative and the owner himself will realize that the silent majority of Atheists are conservative by nature. We believe in looking at what is true and what is not and discerning it for ourselves through independent thought. When looking at politics from an intelligent perspective that looks at all the evidence the result will normally be conservative. it is only the small, yet very loud, minority who are liberals who are anti-religion. I don't care what religion you are so why are some people so insecure that they cannot sleep at night without attacking me for my mere existence. Atheist Conservative rant over. Ryancsh

"For example, I just had an atheist threaten me with hellfire. The atheist said that if my God is real, he hopes I burn in hell. Of course, this "atheist" was an "agnostic" since "atheists" have no proof and evidence that atheism is true. And we know that deep down that "agnostics" and "atheists" know that God exists. For example, children see the world as designed - even in Japan which is largely non-Christian. See: Children see the world as designed

Question: Is there anything more sad and pathetic than an atheist/agnostic threatening a Bible believer with hellfire?

"Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman." - Francis Thomson

Please see: 5 truths which cause Darwinists and atheists to fly into uncontrollable bursts of rage

Why do the Darwinists rage? Why do the atheists imagine a vain thing?" Conservative 16:33, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Indeed. But how is this news? Seriously, can we not have a dedicated question evolution debate page? As for rage, sometimes I think you have a fear of water.--Patmac 17:17, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

I agree with Patmac, this topic seems to always find its way into every talk page, somehow. Shouldn't this be in the evolution talk page, Conservative? KatieKomori 17:23, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Liberal Darwinists, I think you want Christian conservatives to ignore the main weapon against Darwinist/liberal public school indoctrination in 2013. That is not going to happen in 2013. Remember Darwinists and atheists, the religious right and creationists are the potter of the culture war and you are the clay! [15] Why do you have to be so reactionary? Just accept that creationism is growing in the USA, Europe and the world at large and you just have that it will lead to more and more social conservatism.[16][17] The sooner you accept the inevitable, the easier it will be for you to look at the main page and main page talk page. And remember, as soon as you satisfactorily answer the 15 questions for evolutionists, then you will have the right to complain, but not before then. Conservative 17:56, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Well, speaking as an atheist, the only thing those five "facts" made me fly in to was uncontrollable bursts of laughter. I especially enjoyed the part about how "God can outperform evolutionists and atheists on cognitive flexibility tests and emotional intelligence tests." --EEdwards 18:01, 11 May 2013 (EDT) If you want to call trying to de-noise the site by creating more cohesion between topics "reactionary", then that's your prerogative, I suppose. KatieKomori 18:05, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

I agree with you Conservative, but I as asked, how is this news?--Patmac 18:03, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

How is it not news? Conservative 18:04, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative, are these claims new? Is this an event that has recently taken place at a definite point in time? KatieKomori 18:07, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Gentlemen, PZ Myers recently said that atheism is on the cusp of an atheist nerd crisis and now creationists are fixing their bayonets and about to charge and take advantage of this crisis. And creationists will conclusively demonstrate to many people that Darwinist nerds are pushing foolish fantasies via enhanced dissemination of the Question evolution! campaign message. How is this not news? Conservative 18:10, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Because this is a vague promise of a future event that, like all your vague promises before, will never actually happen. News is things that actually happen. Let us know when the creationist bayonet charge actually occurs, it'll be amusing to watch 50 and 60 year old crazies puffing and wheezing in column of companies with bayonets fixed. --EEdwards 18:14, 11 May 2013 (EDT) EEdwards pretty much hit the nail on the head. That's like saying that "we will have a conservative in the Whitehouse at some point in the future" and calling it news. KatieKomori 18:16, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

My right to complain is exactly what it is, a right, not a condition of answering questions about which I cannot answer because I am not qualified to answer, I would not know where to start. Not that it was a complaint in the first place, it was a suggestion. To cede a point, my answer to question 1. God created it--Patmac 18:12, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, my apologies. Personal remark removed you. For example, children see the world as designed - even in Japan which is largely non-Christian. See: Children see the world as designed. "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to little children." - Jesus Conservative 18:20, 11 May 2013 (EDT) So you're determining the validity of your world view by the number of children who believe it? KatieKomori 18:22, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Of course he is. He's a big believer in Santa too. And the monster that lives under his bed. He also has an imaginary friend called "Jesus." --EEdwards 18:24, 11 May 2013 (EDT) Jsuk, a lot of people here believe in an imaginary disorder called Santa Syndrome. It's supposedly a leading cause of atheism, though mention of it in any psychological circles is deafeningly silent. KatieKomori 18:31, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

Contrary to belief us Brits are not indoctrinated in evolution, I never learned anything about it. When I was at school at least it was only taught to over 14's after the option to drop subjects. I dropped biology so my knowledge of the subject is limited, I know nothing of DNA other than it is helix-ed and is a code for life. However I can answer 2 of them. Question 1: I believe that God created life, but I am sure evolution does not concern itself with the origin of life so an irrelevant question. Question 13: Again,irrelevant. --Patmac 18:28, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

EEdwards, all true Bible believing creationists would never lie to their children because the Bible says not to lie. It is the compromisers to biblical authority and those who rebel to biblical authority who lie about Santa. By the way, it sounds like you have Santa Syndrome. :) Conservative 23:06, 11 May 2013 (EDT)

From #4: "In 2011, only two of the Miss USA beauty pageant contestants thought evolution should be taught in schools. Evidently, most beautiful women find the "Argument from beauty" argument for the existence of God to be quite an attractive argument." See: Argument from beauty.

Taken from: 7 reasons why young earth creationist men get more of the beautiful girls than atheist men

Does anyone know if Beth Ditto is an evolutionist? Conservative 01:18, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

All this reminds me of the guy who slipped and fell from the top of the Empire State Building. As he passed the 100th floor, he thought "it's OK, I haven't hurt myself". At the 99th floor, he thought "so far so good, I haven't hurt myself". At the 98th floor he thought "I don't know what the fuss is about, I haven't hurt myself". At the 97th floor... Rafael 10:08, 12 May 2013 (EDT) Rafael, setting aside your irrelevant comment, is it true that atheist men are less likely to be involved in sports? If you deny this matter, why do you do so? Conservative 10:49, 12 May 2013 (EDT) See the Alexa traffic data above. 96th floor..."I'm OK, I don't see what all the fuss is about". Rafael 11:07, 12 May 2013 (EDT) Rafael, if you don't answer my question above, then you are admitting defeat. By the way, have you figured out yet how many web properties I/we contribute to yet? Conservative 11:13, 12 May 2013 (EDT) Rafael, one last thing, I/we are going to write the content for two web pages today and they are going to posted on the internet tomorrow. If you can oblige, please tell me where they are posted. :) Conservative 11:20, 12 May 2013 (EDT) 95th floor..."I'm not falling, I'm flying!" Rafael 12:54, 12 May 2013 (EDT) I hope the young earth creationist men are not having sexual relations with the beautiful girls. That would be fornication. CamD 13:17, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Rafael, there is one other thing, what do you think of our/my blog that was created on May 4, 2013. Do you like the design? :) "...just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions. He who can modify his tactics in relation to his opponent and thereby succeed in winning, may be called a heaven-born captain." - Sun Tzu. :)

Also, I/we received some encouraging feedback about some new content that I/we created which is being published to the web this week. The review was: "Nice. Sounds good. Strong .....". Have you figured out where it is being published yet? :)

And Rafael, let me know when you find all my/our website/blog content at various web properties. It is going to be challenging! "Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus, he is master of his enemy's fate." :) Conservative 13:22, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

The question is does anyone care?. Probably just another worthless blog to spam the news page with. It's funny how spamming links to external sites is a blockable action. But the rules don't apply to you, do they Conservative?--Patmac 13:43, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

For Heaven's sake, has anyone actually read the article? It's clearly a spoof. Whether the Question Evolution blog has been hacked, or whether the whole site is a set-up, I'm not sure, but no one could be writing this sort of thing without their tongue firmly in their cheek.--DHouser 14:02, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

I was wrong to call questionevolution a worthless blog, I am sorry. Evolution, just like any other scientific theory should be questioned. It is not however a valid news source--Patmac 15:28, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, for a person who doesn't care what I do, you sure do post a lot to me. Conservative 15:39, 12 May 2013 (EDT) After reading the blog entry in question, I'm happy to crown its author as the undisputed McGonagall of creationist internet evangelism. JohanZ 14:50, 13 May 2013 (EDT)

JohanZ, were you on any sports teams in high school? :) Have you ever heard the song "You gotta be a football hero"? :) Conservative 09:43, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Aye. Played no.4 lock forward for the school and for my local side. Played at U-19s level aged 16 and gave as good as I got. How about yourself? JohanZ 13:38, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Give me a break, the first paragraph of the cited article completely refutes the assertion, Replacing missing teeth with new bioengineered teeth, grown from stem cells generated from a person's own gum cells, is a future method that could be superior to the currently used implant technology, but for now not all required pieces are in place. --NormaN 22:16, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

It was notable enough to be announced on a Scientific website. You're just being bitter.--Jpatt 22:01, 13 May 2013 (EDT) Of course it is notable my good sir, it simply is neither amazing nor a breakthrough. Facts can be stubborn things.--NormaN 21:12, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Here's a partial list of advancements made by using embryonic stem cell research. BlakeJay 10:57, 13 May 2013 (EDT)

Really? Seems more like propaganda than advancements. "Could be" conclusions "might be" , "scientists hope" and more wishful thinking. Nice try.--Jpatt 21:59, 13 May 2013 (EDT) Opening paragraph of the article cited on the main page (emphasis added): "Replacing missing teeth with new bioengineered teeth, grown from stem cells generated from a person's own gum cells, is a future method that could be superior to the currently used implant technology, but for now not all required pieces are in place" Same thing. WilcoxD 00:47, 14 May 2013 (EDT) I understand WilcoxD, you want to point out the hypocrisy. The fact is they are growing teeth with adult stem cells. The teeth are not grown in humans at this point: (emphasis subtracted) If you can show me some other entity already accomplishing this feat I will bow down. --Jpatt 22:09, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Help me out here....what is the "Obama Administration" supposed to admit to? Is Obama now in charge of Boston Homicide? Is the Obama Administration performing the murder investigations now? -Winger77

OK, maybe this will "help" you here: the Obama Administration is investigating Tamerlan Tsarnaev and has his DNA. It also has the DNA from the 9/11 triple-murder. Even liberals are smart enough to realize that the next step is to compare the DNA to solve the crimes.--Andy Schlafly 11:48, 13 May 2013 (EDT) As a lawyer, I am sure that Andy realizes how prejudicial such statements by the President or senior Justice Department officials would be to the pending cases against his brother. Anyone who believes that accused people should receive a fair trial with a minimum of prejudicial pre-trial publicity (as well as anyone who feels some moral compunction to refrain from accusing a dead person who cannot respond to accusations) would not want to see the investigation of the earlier deaths politicized. All Americans want to see the Boston Marathon bombing and any related crimes investigated with professionalism. It may prove to be the case that there was a wider conspiracy which involved earlier acts, perhaps including the prior killings. But, this episode should not be politicized; rather it should be left to law enforcement professionals to handle in a dispassionate manner. Wschact 11:55, 13 May 2013 (EDT) The Obama Administration is the one playing politics with its liberal denial in refusing to admit how Tamerlan Tsarnaev's DNA compares with the DNA of the 9/11 triple-murderer. The DNA almost certainly match, and the public should not be kept in the dark because Obama cares more about his approval ratings than the truth.--Andy Schlafly 14:37, 13 May 2013 (EDT) "the DNA almost certainly match"...well, I guess you got it all figured out then Schafly. Although, what exactly would a be the benefit of keeping America in the dark on this? Wouldn't it be better for the old approval rating that Obama apparently cares about in his final term to announce how he has solved this murder mystery? - Winger77 Andy; your comment that a president should make statements about cases that are sub judice is frankly disturbing. How on earth can the justice system operate if comments are made which prejudice the whole system? And how on earth can you, as a lawyer not know this? As a criminal defence lawyer myself, if a person in authority made a statement indicating my client's guilt, I would have an automatic grounds for appeal, and in some cases the charges would have to be thrown out. --DamianJohn 21:36, 13 May 2013 (EDT)

Winger77, your issue aside, don't refer to contributors by their surname.--Patmac 15:49, 13 May 2013 (EDT)

Why should this case be treated differently than any other "cold" homicide case? Assume that there are DNA samples from the tripple murder, and assume that law enforcement is actively pursuing the possibility that more than one person was involved in the tripple murder. Would not the best approach to be to keep the details of the investigation private until additional arrests can be made? Certainly the defense counsel to any person arrested for those crimes or for some conspiracy related to those killings will get access to the DNA test results and to the DNA samples for further testing. Why should CP get worked up about the Obama Administration not taking a high-profile role in a law enforcement matter? This is not worth the front page of CP and is not worthy of "CP proven right." Nobdoy was actively arguing that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was definitely not involved, they were saying that it was too early to tell if he was involved or not. Thanks, Wschact 23:19, 13 May 2013 (EDT) But it is obviously not "too early to tell," and there is no prosecution against Tamerlan Tsarnaev that could possibly be influenced. When you do you think the DNA match should be released by the Obama Administration, if ever?--Andy Schlafly 23:37, 13 May 2013 (EDT) It should never be released by the Obama Administration, that much is obvious. It may be tendered as evidence in a judicial proceeding, including a coronial enquiry and/or a trial. Once tendered into evidence the fact-finder in that instance will be able to make a determination on its probity and accuracy. --DamianJohn 23:46, 13 May 2013 (EDT) The goal is to bring all those involved in any possible conspiracy to justice. It is obvious that two brothers would be unlikely to act alone. We already have three other people who are now in the criminal justice system for aiding them after the fact. It is possible that some person or persons were involved in radicalizing them and possibly aiding them before the fact. It is possible that the conspiracy extended back to 2011 and to crimes committed in that year. All Americans want this investigated by law enforcement professionals rather than a CP posse. Four people are currently facing criminal charges, and we should respect their rights. I would hope that the CP front page would be written from the prespective that all citizens, including those accused of doing terrible things are presumed innocent until proven guilty and that the Constitution with its Bill of Rights must be valued even in the face of horrific acts. A conservative would demand a Constitutional perspective rather than mob rule and trial by internet. Wschact 04:46, 14 May 2013 (EDT) Hear hear. Regardless of your politics, surely one tenant that is absolutely non-negotiable, is that a person accused of a crime is entitled to due process of law, which includes the presumption of innocence. Cases like these are not particularly unique in a country with on average 40 homicides per day. Just let the justice system operate. It is one of the USA's best contributions to the world, and shouldn't be messed with just because you happen to not like the politics of the current administration. --DamianJohn 05:06, 14 May 2013 (EDT) There will not be any trial of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. So is your position that the match of his DNA with the 9/11 triple murders should never be released to the public??? If so, the result would be to keep the public in the dark, and make it more difficult to prevent future recurrence of horrific crimes, just as the Boston Marathon bombing was tragically not prevented.--Andy Schlafly 10:02, 14 May 2013 (EDT) My position is three-fold. (1) It should never be released by anyone other than a relevant judicial body, and in particular should never have anything to do with an elected official of the executive. It is a Judicial matter and should be handled by the judiciary. Turning the criminal process into a political football cheapens the political process and will entirely destroy your justice system. (2) Evidence of a DNA link between a suspect (even a dead one) and a past crime is simply that, evidence. It needs to be weighed and assessed for it's probity by a body capable of doing so. Unlike what you see on TV, in my experience, trials rarely turn on one specific piece of evidence, and releasing one piece of evidence outside it's proper context is likely to have a far more prejudicial than probative effect on any future trial. (3) Releasing evidence of such a technical nature to the public would have literally no effect on the USA's readiness to fight terror in the future. The proper use of any such evidence (if that is what you are concerned about), will be in a coronial or legislative enquiry into shortcomings in the justice system. Unfortunately, given the overly-partisan nature of the USA political scene right now, all we will see is people attempting to score political points and nobody will attempt to fix any procedural shortcomings if there were any (and that very much remains to be shown). I liken the situation to when General Macarthur returned home in 1951 after being sacked by Truman. He came home amid a wave of fury and emotion, all and sundry accusing Truman and others of betrayal and treason and it looked like democracy itself might have been in peril had their been a march on Washington. The reality was coolly shown in a Senatorial enquiry that the positions that the positions that Macarthur was advocating sounded good in a headline, but were not sound given the world political situation (he advocated inter alia nuking China if necessary to win the war in Korea, and was not concerned about the reaction the USSR might take). Much like here, cool heads need to prevail, the criminals should be tried and sentenced in accordance with law, and any evidence relating to those crimes should be handled according to the laws of evidence that are in place. Every defendant, whether they be principle offenders, parties or accessories after the fact are to be treated as innocent until proven guilty, and no person in authority should make any statement prejudicing the judicial process. --DamianJohn 17:53, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Andy, Tamerian's brother has been arrested and is facing trial. Three other people who assisted after-the-fact are facing trial. If your theory is true, there may be others who will be arrested and face trial. Shouldn't those trials be fair ones? Thanks, Wschact 11:02, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Andy seems to have gone quiet on the subject. Are we witnessing the very first time in Conservapedia's history that Andy has changed his mind about something? --DamianJohn 17:54, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Look at this atheist committing the slothful induction fallacy and the fallacy of exclusion in the blog comment section of the blog article HERE. Obviously, he lacks machismo which certainly can mean: an "exhilarating sense of power or strength".[18]. Olé! Olé!Olé! Señor 15 questions for evolutionist! Conservative 13:48, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

94th floor "I'm not falling, I'm rising!" Rafael 14:19, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

The whole atheism/creationist debate is a current and serious one but is not going to be won by constantly portraying the opposition as fairies, wimps, bad with girls, fat, of low IQ, immoral etc. Can you not see that these tactics only hurt your position? I know many irreligious men here in my small town who would eat me for breakfast and I am no softy, and some of them have very hot wives or girlfriends, because in my experience some women love a bad boy. I don't see CMI using such tactics,

--Patmac 16:24, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

What creationist ever said that atheists have lower IQs? While it is true that medical science suggests that overweight and obese atheists suffer brain impairment, who said that the atheist population has a lower IQ? Is it not atheists who often falsely claim to have higher intelligence than theists? See: Atheism and intelligence and Brights Movement. If you could support your claim, I would appreciate it. Conservative 20:06, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Every time I read a post of yours my belief in creationism diminishes--Patmac 20:11, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, I don't believe you. See: Evolution and Cases of Fraud, Hoaxes and Speculation and Atheism and deception and Evolution, Liberalism, Atheism, and Irrationality. Conservative 20:15, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Sorry, I can't take any of your articles seriously. Something I wrote earlier but deleted as I did not wish to cause offense but as you have hit the ball into my court, here we go:

See

http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal_style

Points 1, 2, 5, (arguably 6) and an inverted point 9 (Shockofgod)

--Patmac 16:24, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

You know what Conservative, I give in, you win, I will not react to your posts anymore unless it is a direct insult of myself or someone/thing I hold dear--Patmac 20:27, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, I have pointed out that I don't want your attention and that it is you who keep posting to me. With your repeated cries of attention from me, you are being inconsistent in trying to paint me with liberal style. Conservative 20:37, 14 May 2013 (EDT) Patmac, if evolutionists/atheists/agnostics want to stop being seen as wimps, the solution is so easy. Debate VivaYehshua! Conservative 10:41, 15 May 2013 (EDT) Question for Conservative: why do you lump people who believe in evolution with atheists and agnostics, as if the three groups were interchangeable? As a Roman Catholic who believes that evolution is a well-tested scientific explanation for how life, once already created by God, became diverse, I would certainly object to being lumped in with people who do not believe in God. GregG 10:50, 15 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative can obviously correct me, but my take is this Greg, if you believe that evolution is the mechinism for how life became diverse, you have essentially conceded that Gensis is not literal, as Adam and Eve, as complex humans, could not have been created directly by God. As a result of this, there would be no original sin, which would make Jesus' sacrifice useless, and as a result, make Christianity false. I think Conservative views this as a serious issue, and therefore, if you reject a literal interpretation of Genesis, you are rejecting Christianity, despite your stated religion. --Krayner 11:07, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

GregG, I asked you about 2 Peter 3: 3-7 (along with the underlying Greek) before and I don't believe you gave me a satisfactory response in terms of a good faith response and due diligence. The same applies to the 15 questions for evolutionists. I am also not convinced that you do strongly believe in evolution and believe it is well-tested scientific explanation. I have seen to many stubborn and prideful Darwinist posers in my life. Also, you have the evolution article at your disposal which shows it is not well-tested scientific explanation if you look at the article's content, its sources and the recommended resources (external links, etc.). Now you want me to answer your question. Given my current priorities and your past behavior, that is not going to happen.

Lastly, I am not convinced of the sincerity of atheists/agnostics. Many times I have seen Shockofgod ask so called atheists in debates if they thought God was evil. They say yes which means they concede that God exists. If someone asked me if leprechauns are evil, I would say that that I don't believe they exist. I certainly wouldn't say that I believe leprechauns are evil. I think atheism, agnosticism and Darwinism are jokes. And often when you ask people probing questions about their supposed atheism, agnosticism and Darwinism they exhibit the types of behavior associated with people who engage in insincere denialism and/or willful ignorance and stubbornness. They most certainly do not behave like sincere inquirers of the truth. Conservative 17:41, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

@Krayner: I do believe in original sin. I also think that there were original humans who committed the original sin and from whom all humans are descended. @Conservative: I will try to respond point-by-point so that we don't get sidetracked by distractions:

GregG, I asked you about 2 Peter 3: 3-7 (along with the underlying Greek) before and I don't believe you gave me a satisfactory response in terms of a good faith response and due diligence.

I am not aware of such a request until now (and, unfortunately, since you did not provide a link, I cannot evaluate whether or not you asked me before; please accept my apologies). From my research, it seems the passage treats creation metaphorically. The point of the verse 5 is not a modern scientific explanation of the origin of the Earth (like something from a science textbook); it is an explanation of God's authorship of all creation, written for people living around the 1st to 2nd centuries A.D., about 1500 years before the scientific method, and who, if they knew any science, would likely know Greek "science" such as that of Democritus and Aristotle. With regards to verse 6, I do believe that there was a Great Flood, although the extent may be overstated in the Bible for allegorical effect.

The same applies to the 15 questions for evolutionists.

I think I've stated my position on this numerous times, and since you have a knack for writing, I will quote you about why I don't answer/debate the 15 questions: "Given my current priorities and your past behavior, that is not going to happen."

I am also not convinced that you do strongly believe in evolution and believe it is well-tested scientific explanation.

It depends on what you mean by "strongly believe in evolution." I do not study biology (as I've said before, my biology expertise spans two years of high school courses, the latter of which was AP Biology), I do not teach biology, and I do not do biological research, so in that sense I guess one can say that I do not strongly believe in evolution. I will say that, based on my understanding of biology and the evidence regarding evolution, it is not a close call for me as to whether evolution is a well-tested scientific explanation.

I have seen to [sic] many stubborn and prideful Darwinist posers in my life.

I certainly don't see myself as "stubborn and prideful."

Also, you have the evolution article at your disposal which shows it is not well-tested scientific explanation if you look at the article's content, its sources and the recommended resources (external links, etc.).

Turnabout is fair play. You have the TalkOrigins FAQ and website "at your disposal which shows it is ... well-tested scientific explanation if you look at the [page]'s content" and the linked pages and their bibliographies.

Now you want me to answer your question. Given my current priorities and your past behavior, that is not going to happen.

I see this as ironic coming from the same party that relentlessly promotes (and possibly authors posts on) a blog where answering questions in a live debate format with a fourth party is a requirement for unrestricted posting of comments.

Lastly, I am not convinced of the sincerity of atheists/agnostics. Many times I have seen Shockofgod ask so called [sic] atheists in debates if they thought God was evil. They say yes which means they concede that God exists. If someone asked me if leprechauns are evil, I would say that that I don't believe they exist. I certainly wouldn't say that I believe leprechauns are evil.

I find this passage quite illuminating of Shock's debate style: apparently resorting to loaded questions and trick questions instead of addressing the merits. By the way, from what you describe of the atheist's response, I don't see it as an admission that God exists; I see it as saying "If God exists [possibly with the characteristics attributed to Him in the Bible], then He is evil." I could say "Santa Claus is a generous man" without admitting that he exists.

I think atheism, agnosticism and Darwinism are jokes.

I personally think the RIAA, Monsanto, and Microsoft are corporations I think are not behaving as ethically as they ought to be. This doesn't make them interchangeable.

And often when you ask people probing questions about their supposed atheism, agnosticism and Darwinism they exhibit the types of behavior associated with people who engage in insincere denialism and/or willful ignorance and stubbornness. They most certainly do not believe like sincere inquirers of the truth.

I can't speak about this as I am not an atheist and do not have regular conversations with atheists about atheism. I will say that I am a "sincere inquirer[] of the truth." GregG 19:16, 15 May 2013 (EDT) GregG, I am not going to spend my time wrangling with Personal remark removed. I made this decision concerning you shortly before I got the above message from you (Your message at 10:50, 15 May 2013) and I decided to limit my interaction with you as much as possible and put the time to better uses. My decision was timely as it will prevent me from wasting a lot of time in yet another unproductive discussion with you. I am sorry to report this to you, but you have not given me a better alternative. Conservative 21:28, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Did Conservative just get owned?--DavidS 19:03, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

"And whenever an evolutionist debate opponent backs out of a debate that he agreed to of course that means that the creationist debate opponent won the debate by default. VivaYehshua won the debate by forfeit. It is like a chess match where the opponent tips over his king as his first move!" [19]

When is Fergus Mason going to debate VivaYehshua liked he promised to?Conservative 22:11, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

Mr. Mason is being shown the French pause. :) He knows what he needs to do! Debate VivaYehshua. Conservative 22:51, 14 May 2013 (EDT) Did your big sister used to take care of school bullies for you too? WilcoxD 02:01, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

Mr. Mason is bulldog with no teeth. That why he backed out of his debate with VivaYehshua. He knows this, I know this and VivaYehshua knows this. Conservative 02:25, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

There's an easy way for you to prove that, User:C. Seeing as Viva has been banned, why don't you debate me? Viva tells me you're not so good at oral debates, so we can have a written debate here if you like (unless you're, you know, a bit lacking in the old ma-cheese-mo.) Just get Popeye to keep his banhammer in his pocket for a couple of hours and I'll happily wipe the floor with you and your 15 stupid questions. Now that your excuse is blown it's time to put your money where your mouth is and debate me like a man. Otherwise get back down your hole with those bunnies.--Fergus Mason 09:13, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

I have searched on how to do this, the closest I got was finding a chat room where he has not be seen for weeks. So instructions on how debate this fellow would be appreciated. Thanks --Patmac 10:37, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

What is the point of your question? Are you just trying to be a Personal remark removed and seeking attention? We know evolutionists quake in their boots at the mere thought of debating VivaYehshua! Let a Darwinist make a debate challenge. Then VivaYehshua will emerge from the fog of creation vs. evolution war and do battle! And remember, the debate must be on creationist terms and certainly not Darwinists terms as their empire is crumbling. See: Infrastructure of Darwinism is crumbling HERE and HERE. Conservative 10:41, 16 May 2013 (EDT) I did make a debate challenge, User:Conservative. I made it to YOU, and you ran away and hid behind Viva and Shock. Are you willing to debate me about your ridiculous questions or not? Don't try the "obscure internet evolutionist" excuse either. You know who I am, whereas you won't even reveal your gender, species or numbers (although we all know EXACTLY who you are, despite your farcical attempts at generating mystery.) So come on: put up or shut up. Either debate me or get back down your hole with the other coprophages.--Fergus Mason 10:17, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

I was not addressing you Conservative. Can anyone advise how I can contact VivaYehshua please. Not so much for a debate but to ask him if he knows that his name is being used as a pawn in someone elses crusade--Patmac 11:59, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, Viva is one of my Skype contacts. If you like I can ask him if it's OK to give you his contact details. You'll find me on Skype at fergus.mason1. In any case he knows that User:Conservative has been doing this. I did try to debate Viva, although he doesn't like the 15 questions and wanted a general debate about evolution instead, but I kept getting banned by other moderators. That wasn't Viva's fault; he's actually quite a cool guy.--Fergus Mason 09:29, 19 May 2013 (EDT) I believe User:C posted a while ago, a link to a chatroom frequented by VivaYeshua. brenden 13:41, 16 May 2013 (EDT) I hunted through the links and eventually ended up in this chat room which I found near the bottom of this blog post. The people in that room are pretty cool, I stayed a while and had some good conversations. However, they said that VivaYehshua was banned about a month ago and basically said, I'm paraphrasing here, that Conservative should fight his own battles... sorry Patmac, I tried to find an answer to your question. Fnarrow 23:07, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

to: Fnarrow, VivaYehshua, a chat room moderator of Shockofgod, was banned from Shockofogod's chat room? I don't believe it. Your claims lack credibility - especially in the light of your absence of evidence presented for your claims. Conservative 23:30, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

I just left the chatroom as well, and great discussions, but VivaYehshua was indeed banned for a month, and Conservative, they did say you should debate on your own. --Krayner 23:36, 16 May 2013 (EDT) Head over there now and ask the Mod named ActuarialNinja he's the one who told me... And many other who were there when it was discussed are still there. I have no desire to debate anyone and therefore have no dog in this fight, I'm just passing the facts along. Fnarrow 23:54, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

Should be on main-page-right. brenden 20:21, 16 May 2013 (EDT)

Is it news or more yah-boo sucks from the blogger that can't read a graph? Rafael 12:03, 17 May 2013 (EDT) == Christianity Declining In The UK ==

[[20]] I wonder if there's something Conservapedia can do to stop this change JRegden 01:16, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Faux Christianity (Liberal Christianity) is declining, Bible believing Christianity via immigrants and their children is increasing.[21] Conservative 01:49, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

In one word, JReg, no. The will is not here. You and I can do what we can but don't expect any sense, let alone help, here. Rafael 10:53, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

What right have you to label any form of Christianity false? I am Anglican, are you telling me I am not a real Christian? Does respect mean anything to you?--Patmac 11:39, 17 May 2013 (EDT) Patmac, what are your thoughts about David Jenkins, former Bishop of Durham, who called the resurrection a conjuring trick with bones?[22] Is there sound evidence supporting the historicity of the Bible and the divine inspiration of the Bible and Bible inerrancy? See: Biblical archaeology and Bible prophecy and Bible history. Why do you think that liberal Christianity is shrinking within global Christianity? Do you believe in the law of non-contradiction? Do you believe it is possible to ascertain religious truths (Jesus is reported to have said it is possible to know religious truth in the gospels in John 8:32)? Why did Paul and Jesus warn about false teachers and false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing? Have their ever been wolves in sheep's clothing as far as Christianity? Why did the Puritans/pilgrims come to America and did they have a right to publicly disagree with the religious officials/teachers in Europe and say that they were teaching error? Conservative 13:41, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I agree with some of your points but that is not what I asked. I challenge you to give a one word answer. I am Anglican, are you telling me I am not a real Christian? Yes or No--Patmac 13:44, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, which points do you disagree with and why? Also, do you think that respect should be automatically given or do you think it is earned and that dishonorable behavior can cause people to be rightfully disrespected? I say this because often the people who demand respect the loudest are the ones who least deserve it. Conservative 13:49, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Ha, I just knew you could not give a one word answer. Reading between lines though, you do not consider me and my fellow 73 million Anglicans Christian. By extension, and because of the similar doctrine, I take it that you do not consider the circa 1 billion Roman Catholics as true Christians either. What about the hundreds of millions who are members of The Eastern Orthodox churches? Together we make up over 75 % of Christians and close to a quarter of the World's population.--Patmac 14:00, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, two points. First, you are creating a false dilemna and being illogical. There are theologically conservative Anglicans, particularly outside of the UK/Europe/Western World, but inside the UK/Europe/Western World, errant theological liberalism has often been more prevalent in Anglicanism in recent times. Second, you have shown yourself to be theologically liberal and unable to defend it. You have also demanded respect for liberal Christianity, but given your inability to defend your theology, you have shown that respect to be undeserving.Conservative 14:10, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

To answer some of your points: The Bishop of Durham was wrong and does not represent the majority view. No, I do not believe in Bible inerrancy. The Pilgrim Fathers migrated because they were discriminated against. Until you just mentioned it I had not heard of the law of non-contradiction. Jesus and Paul were both of course correct about the wolf in sheeps clothing, all that glitters is not gold and beware of Greeks' bearing gifts are two similar sentiments. You are correct in calling me theologically liberal and I am secure enough in my faith that I have no need to defend it. I will leave that to the Queen, she is "The Defender of the Faith"

However, back to the point, Am I a Christian? --Patmac 14:00, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Why would I allow myself to be dragged into a discussion of theologically conservative Protestantism vs. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox Christianity or discuss other matters with you, when you have dodged some of my questions above plus displayed illogical behavior on top of this matter. If you are being unreasonable, why would I want to have a protracted discussion with you? Conservative 14:24, 17 May 2013 (EDT) Conservative believes in only the true sort of Christianity as spread in God's chosen country. Anglicans and Catholics are simply wrong. CamD 14:27, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I HAVE NEVER INSULTED YOUR RELIGIOUS FAITH. And I would never do so. If you can't answer my question perhaps you can ask VivaYehshua to do it for you? --Patmac 14:31, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I asked above: "Why do you think that liberal Christianity is shrinking within global Christianity? Do you believe in the law of non-contradiction? Do you believe it is possible to ascertain religious truths (Jesus is reported to have said it is possible to know religious truth in the gospels in John 8:32)?" There must be a reason or reasons why you are not answering these questions? Tell me why. Conservative 14:35, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I answered some of your points above, take a look. Other points: I have no idea why Liberal Christianity is shrinking.Yes I believe it is possible to ascertain religious truths . As I said above until you mentioned it I had never heard of the law of non-contradiction. Points answered. --Patmac 14:43, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I have just read your article Cons, at least the bullet points and it does seem logical but I would suggest, and I am really going out on a limb here, that Quantum Mechanics, which is not logical, "seems" to contradict it. This is the best I can do at the moment.--Patmac 15:06, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, if want me to continue this discussion, you are going to have to show me via a gesture of good faith that it is worth pursuing the discussion further. Please do some research on why liberal Christianity is shrinking and get back to me. I certainly do not want to spend a lot of time in a discussion with a person who will not accept any reasonable criticisms of Liberal Christianity or could not accept that it could be shrinking due to teaching error, spiritual deadness or other causes indicating its unsoundness. Theologically conservative Protestantism is experiencing explosive growth within the world and within global Christianity and many of its adherents are reporting credible reports of the miraculous (I would be glad to discuss this with you, but first you have to show your gesture of good faith). Conservative 15:10, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I do not want to debate, I want you to answer. I have addressed all your points. Now, do you consider me to be a Christian? Liberal or otherwise?--Patmac 15:15, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

Patmac, please do some research on why liberal Christianity is shrinking and get back to me. I certainly do not want to spend a lot of time in a discussion with a person who will not accept any reasonable criticisms of Liberal Christianity or could not accept that it could be shrinking due to teaching error, spiritual deadness or other causes indicating its unsoundness. Conservative 15:20, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

I will do the research but I place my own caveat, that you answer my question. Am I a Christian?--Patmac 15:22, 17 May 2013 (EDT)?

Due to various people wanting more of my time, I will not be reading any talk pages of Conservapedia in 2013, 2014 and 2015. In addition, I will not be posting to any talk pages of Conservapedia as well during this period. Conservative 22:44, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

JohanZ 23:17, 17 May 2013 (EDT) So there is just one of you? Rafael 01:38, 18 May 2013 (EDT) This illustrates my previous observation about competing demands on the valuable time of volunteers. No volunteer can contribute at a peak level for a long period of time. There is always the danger of burn out or other deferred time commitments catching up with the volunteer in the long run. That is why we should have a three person committee editing and updating the Main Page. Each member would serve for 9 months and then rotate off, with the terms staggered, so that every calendar quarter, one new committee member would join and one would rotate off. If there is a disagreement between the members, it would be decided by a majority vote of the three. This would allow other editors to make suggestions on this page about the Main Page and be assured of a fair and prompt consideration of the input. It would also result in greater civility, because everyone would know that they may have a turn in the "hot seat" and would not launch into intemperate language out of frustration. Since User:Conservative is not available to respond to this page and to edit the Main Page at the expense of "people wanting more of his time", I believe this is the ideal time to implement the Committee approach. Thanks! Wschact 18:27, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

I thought a little bit about User:Conservative's announcement, and while I was at first very annoyed (see here), I'm now taking it cum grano salis:

I assume that someone advised User:Conservative neither to provoke fights at talk-pages nor let himself drawn into those. In one of his strange face-saving maneuvers, he decided to make the absurd announcement above. Over time (i.e., the next few days) we will get back to some kind of normal routine...

It would be nice if I were wrong and User:Conservative graduated from University in three years time, stating in his address as valedictorian that this was only possible because he put the time he gained by ignoring talk-pages to good use. --AugustO 09:06, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

I/we underestimated the amount of speculation my announcement would cause. Plus, I/we will confess that I/we was/were a little curious about the reaction it would cause and took a few peeks as far as the reaction. In doing so, I/we saw that GregG was being taken to task over his unbiblical views about the Great Flood which pleased me/us greatly. :)

Some clarification:

I/we do have some people who are asking me/us for more of their time for various reasons. In addition, I/we set some new goals for myself/ourselves. New goals often require new priorities be set. Next, nobody advised me/us to establish this new policy which will be in effect until 2016. It was done on my/our own initiative and without influence from other parties. Conservative 16:16, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

What strength of character! What self-discipline! What magnanimousness! Not. --AugustO 16:28, 24 May 2013 (EDT) AugustO, from this point onward you will see User: "ironwill" Conservative perform a feat of wiki willpower that will be completed January 1, 2016! Second, when a proud man receives a comeuppance for trying to turn a Great Flood into a not so Great Flood, it is only fitting that Bible believers be pleased. :) Conservative 19:25, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

The purpose of my/our aforementioned policy was to replace my/our interactions with evolutionists who are unwilling to debate VivaYehshua on the 15 questions for evolutionists via a debate offer that has been repeatedly offered to various evolutionists and instead spend that time on more productive endeavors. This has been very successful and I/we should have done this earlier. Other than tying up a few loose ends in the community portal, interacting with insincere evolutionist posers has been dramatically reduced.

I/we are making a small amendment to the policy, but nothing that will dilute the original purpose of the policy. I/we may make posts to talk pages from time to time for administrative purposes (collaboration on worthwhile projects, warnings to editors, wiki technical matters (dead links, etc.) , etc. Conservative 21:38, 7 June 2013 (EDT)

By the way gentlemen whose website still does not have a Wikipedia entry on it and is losing web traffic[23], the Sysops at Conservapedia think you are highly neurotic and have Severe Conservapedia obsessive compulsive disorder. :) Conservative 12:52, 8 June 2013 (EDT)

They should pray more. CamD 09:43, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Did they suffer some kind of overload following the announcement above? BBRodriguez 21:47, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Can anyone tell me what orbital regression software was used in these calculations? I didn't see it mentioned in the article and I can't find any way to make the claims fit the actual physics. Thanks, Fnarrow 10:13, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Could someone trim this headline into oblivion?

Baa3 is a good, but not a very impressive rating! Other nations which are often bashed as being secular by User:Conservative have much better ratings, like Sweden or the UK. From the link „ The Islamic anti-evolution campaign is taking place in Turkey, and not Egypt or Saudi Arabia, because it is the Muslim nation where evolution has been taken most seriously.” So, maybe Turkey will become a world leader in anti-evolutionism, but it isn't there yet. „Imagine how it would be doing if it adopted the Christian creationism over Islamic creationism.” Imagine what could happen if pigs could fly! That's not news...

--AugustO 03:07, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

Who are you talking to August? Remember that Conservatve will not read any talkpages in the years 2013,2014 and 2015. I have my suspicions that by 2016, new events will have taken our attention. --DamianJohn 03:16, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

I'm asking for any sysop to remove this item. It gets even worse when it is in juxtaposition with the new one „The UK has just had one lost economic decade, and it's about to enter a second. When is the UK going to remove Charles Darwin off its currency? ”: the UK's Moody-ranking is Aa1, while the ranking of Turkey is Baa3 - still behind Bulgaria!

BTW: I think it is absurd that someone who doesn't read this talk page is allowed to make edits to the main page: how does he expect a simple typo to be corrected? --AugustO 05:46, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

I am in two minds about that. On the one hand you make a good point about typographical and other corrections, but then I understand that Conservative is an extremely busy person who is making significant progress in the battle against the Darwinistic agenda. --DamianJohn 06:37, 19 May 2013 (EDT) 100 percent agree AlheeG 07:51, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

Yeah of course. the economic problems in the UK are all caused by having Darwin on its currency. No other country has Darwin on is currency , whats their excuse? What is America's excuse? For over half a decade Conservative has been spreading his hatred on Conservapedia, when is Mr Schlafly going to ban him? When is Mr Schlafly going to realise this man is destroying Conservapedia's reputation? How long is he going to be allowed to post articles that would land him a criminal charge in many western democracies, all on a supposedly family focused encyclopedia? I bring up a post(s) from Conservative where he states The only thing "liberal Christianity" loves more than extramarital sex and pro-abortion policies is gay bathhouses! and By the way, is your "liberal Christianity" "pastor" a lesbian or sodomite? http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Community_Portal#Enforceable_rules_for_sysop_conduct Theses phrases are borderline criminal and have no place on a family focused encyclopedia. I would suggest his rhetoric is better suited on the Westboro Baptist Church's website--Patmac 11:58, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

Can everyone agree that reading Talk:Main Page and responding to concerns noted here is an integral part of editing the Main Page. That is, no person should be allowed to edit the main page if they refuse to read this page, or lack the time to read this page. Thanks, Wschact 23:55, 20 May 2013 (EDT)

HSBC thinks that he is in some way qualified to tell the governer of the Bank of England how to run things. Perhaps if he spent more time stopping his bank laundering drug and terrorist money then more intelligent people may pay more attention to his protestations as opposed to the easily duped and led. Davidspencer 12:40, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

The whole article should be taken with a pinch of salt. Lost decade? Until HSBC and the corporate socialist comrades ran the global economy aground in 2007, the British economy was doing quite well. Osborne's austerity measures are not enough? There's some evidence that it's those very measures, with their obsession with ecoomic liberalism, that are hamstringing a recovery. Wealth inequality is a problem but we shoudn't do anything about it? He would say that, wouldn't he. The hard reality is that nothing is going to change until HSBC and the rest of the corporate comintern stop feeding at the taxpayers trough. Rafael 15:00, 19 May 2013 (EDT) Oh I know Rafael, it's utter rubbish. If this person, who has been Group Chief Economist at HSBC since 1998, says anything I suggest that everyone treats it with a pinch of salt the size of the Cheshire Plain. This man has been Group Chief Economist at HSBC during the time that the company almost went bankrupt and was involved in laundering money for drug runners worldwide resulting in the bank being fined hundreds of millions of pounds in multiple countries for breaking the law, this and this being just 2 examples. They were fined 1.9 BILLION DOLLARS by the US authorities but User:C thinks that the man in charge whilst all this law breaking was taking place is someone worth listening to? Ridiculous quite frankly. Davidspencer 15:40, 19 May 2013 (EDT) Incidentally, it's a good job that user:c is so busy he can't read any talk pages otherwise he may have spent most of his day editing here at Conservapedia. Davidspencer 16:20, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

... is today. --AugustO 15:35, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

I see that Conservative blocked someone today for edits he did not even read! In fact he seemed to take pride in it. I think that these two may have some history based on Conservative's behavior, but is this kind of banning normal? Am I likely to be banned for using a talk page too much as well? BBRodriguez 08:17, 20 May 2013 (EDT)

It happened again! Someone else replied to my topic and was immediately banned for talk page edits he didn't even read!

Would think that the absolutely horrible devastation caused by the Tornado in Moore, Oklahoma would be worth a mention on your main page and maybe a link to donate to Red Cross appeal for it.

Praying for the Oklahoma victims would be a better suggestion - which I will do personally now.--Andy Schlafly 10:12, 21 May 2013 (EDT) He that hath the substance of this world, and shall see his brother in need, and shall shut up his bowels from him: how doth the charity of God abide in him?

Nonsense. Christ admonishes us to pray in private and love our neighbors. Christ truly loves a gift of charity. Show me where He favors prayer for our brothers and sisters over helping them in their time of need. Nate 13:01, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

It's great to give to the unfortunate and poor (which is not necessarily the same as the Red Cross). But that is not what Jesus did. Jesus prayed, often publicly, for people.--Andy Schlafly 13:33, 21 May 2013 (EDT) Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

(Matthew 25:34-46, Douay-Rheims) (This reminds me that I should also create an article on the works of mercy [24].) GregG 18:23, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

The Bible quotes are great. Jesus expressly talked about the Great Flood, and how people misbehaved right up until the Flood occurred. See Luke 17-24 (Translated)#17:27. Do you think Jesus was somehow wrong, and liberal denial right?--Andy Schlafly 23:17, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

Jesus is incapable of lying. I do think a Great Flood occurred, but I don't think the Bible is making a scientific statement as to the precise details of the flood but is rather (in this case) using literary techniques that the people to whom it was first written would be familiar with. My personal opinion is that based the scientific evidence we have, it's not likely that the flood occurred with the precise details specified in the Bible. GregG 23:24, 21 May 2013 (EDT) EDIT I also find it intriguing that User:Conservative posted several stories about the Great flood immediately after Mr. Schlafly and I were discussing it, even though User:Conservative says that he no longer reads these pages. GregG 00:06, 22 May 2013 (EDT) Jesus is quoted in describing the Great Flood. Is the quotation authentic in your view, or not? Liberal denial is a stubborn thing, but logically there is no reason to deny the authenticity of the quote, or the Flood itself.--Andy Schlafly 20:00, 22 May 2013 (EDT) I believe that the entire Bible, including the Deuterocanonical books and the entirety of the four Gospels, is authentic. This, of course, does not mean that Jesus is making literal statements every time he speaks. Indeed, in John 11, Jesus speaks metaphorically at first about Lazarus's death and then, when the disciples misunderstand, clarifies that Lazarus has died: These things he said; and after that he said to them: Lazarus our friend sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep. His disciples therefore said: Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. But Jesus spoke of his death; and they thought that he spoke of the repose of sleep. Then therefore Jesus said to them plainly: Lazarus is dead. (John 11:11-14, Douay-Rheims) GregG 20:00, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

Andrew Schlafly, could you give some examples for this? As far as I know, Jesus prayed privately, as he taught his pupils:

But you, when you pray, go into your private room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father Who is hidden, and your Father, who sees in a hidden manner, will reward you openly. Matthew 6:6 (CBP)

Yes, Jesus gave thanks publicly and made public blessing, but he prayed in private...

--AugustO 02:10, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

This quote is taken out of context. Why didn't you include the context, by which Jesus was urging people not to be like liberals?--Andy Schlafly 20:02, 22 May 2013 (EDT) „Why didn't you include the context, by which Jesus was urging people not to be like liberals?” I just assumed when talking about iconic verses with knowledgeable Christians that they would recognize the verse and therefore the context: the Sermon on the Mount. „This quote is taken out of context.” In which way does the context change the meaning of the verse? Pray in private vs. don't behave like a liberal: pray in private - what difference does this make to the validity of the advice? I'd rather like an answer to my question above: Andrew Schlafly, could you give some examples of Jesus praying, publicly, for people? --AugustO 01:05, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

The item at the top of the front page reads, "Associate of Tamerlan Tsarnaev confessed that they did the 9/11 anniversary triple-murder. But then the associate is shot dead by an official, and liberal denial persists about Tamerlan's murderous past." I have not seen any evidence of any "liberal denial" on this issue. We already discussed above that neither liberals nor anybody else was arguing that Tamerlan definately was not involved in the killings, but rather felt that it was premature for law enforcement to announce that he was involved. Now, there are wide-spread press reports saying that Tamerlan's friend admitted that he was involved, before he was shot. I would remove the "liberal denial" comment at the end of the item. I believe that both liberals and conservatives agree that the Constitutional presumption of innocence requires that the government should be careful when disclosing information while people are facing trials. That is completely separate from liberal denial, and the front page item is not a good example where liberal denial can be criticised. Thanks, Wschact 04:34, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

I would have thought that this new information (if it is true) is validation of the reasons why the DNA results should not have been released. How would you like to explain to the public that because you prejudiced a trial for political gain, a murderer would have to be set free? It isn't something that I imagine would be pleasant. --DamianJohn 05:14, 23 May 2013 (EDT) Aside from a sense of fairness, main stream media are very careful about the reporting of pending criminal proceedings out of a sense of self-preservation. A key to the long-term survival of a media organization is avoiding defamation lawsuits from those accused of a crime or their families. I hope that CP will be around for a long time, and has proper procedures in place to avoid making unsubstantiated accusations of specific individuals committing criminal acts. Thanks, Wschact 14:05, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

Racist "fried chicken" remark + some very twisted logic = Obama calling a woman heckler a "young lady"

only on Conservapedia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Winger77 (talk)

I looked at the video: Barrack Obama addressed the woman as "Madam" - a male heckler would certainly be addressed as "Sir" - and he said about her: The voice of that woman is worth paying attention to. Obviously I do not agree. Yes, he said „cut the young lady some slack”, but while the lady was certainly out of her teens, that seems to be quite mild, compared to paternalistic, sexist references which you can find on the main page of Conservapedia, like: Also, many of their atheist nerd editors still lose ladies to creationist men! So, I'm quite baffled by this news item - surely, I don't understand the subtleties of American politics. --AugustO 18:28, 23 May 2013 (EDT) Had the same remark been by, say, Todd Akin, the liberal media would be smearing him now. Does anyone seriously think that Sergio Garcia is a racist, as the liberal media almost imply?--Andy Schlafly 19:16, 23 May 2013 (EDT) Probably not, although it was a stupid thing to say. I don't understand the whole fried chicken business, but I do know it is a remark calculated to offend, even if it doesn't necessarily mean that the speaker himself is racist. One of nasty, petulant or rash would be more appropriate to describe Garcia. Still, I have no idea why you think Obama was being misogynistic in the slightest. I think it is ironic as someone who calls out "double standards" whenever the media give a liberal an easy time on something you seem to be very tough on liberals for things you wouldn't care about had they been done by conservatives. --DamianJohn 19:47, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

I take offence to this article and strongly request it's removal--Patmac 12:24, 26 May 2013 (EDT).

I agree. I also think that these edits are unacceptable, and unbecoming of an administrator, no matter what rank. brenden 18:25, 26 May 2013 (EDT)

As a daily reader for well over two years now, I repeatedly see the phrases liberalism is declining Evolutionary belief is crumbling and today's declaration the secular left is collapsing . . . and yet there seems to be no predicted liberal apocalypse (my own words). None of the sources point to anything that hasn't been going on for a while already, and if my opinion matters, the liberal/conservative balance seems to be quite steady, has been for a while, and seems to be for the future?

Polling shows gains for conservative truths among the public. Liberal beliefs have virtually collapsed in several key areas, such as gun control. global warming, and communism. Pro-abortion views are declining among youth. The phony theory of evolution is being questioned far more than before.--Andy Schlafly 09:14, 27 May 2013 (EDT) It makes perfect sense to me, guessing you where not reading it properly or you where drunk/impared. - Warick

Why do people deny global warming? The only thing I can think of is that it would hit them financially. --Patmac 16:41, 27 May 2013 (EDT)

Sometimes people act against their own interests. Just think of Lenin and the Mensheviks. Rafael 08:33, 28 May 2013 (EDT) Perhaps someone will write an article or essay on the Decline of Liberalism and give the long-term data. I have not found short-term data to support the claim. Both "liberal" and "conservative" public policy positions evolve over time with events. In the 1920s conservatives were arguing in the United States for temperance and the prohibition of alcohol, and liberals were arguing for legalizing alcohol. In the 1960s, conservatives were arguing for an aggressive war in Southeast Asia, while liberals were arguing for a withdrawal from Viet Nam. Eventually, public policy debates get resolved, without either side "crumbling" -- they just move on to other issues that they believe are more important to the country. Wschact 06:38, 28 May 2013 (EDT)

Google also estimates 150,000,000 search results for the search "creationism and just so stories".

To be fair, better targeted searches would be 'evolution "just so stories"' and 'creationism "just so stories"', which get 139,000 and 101,000 respectively.

To be fairer still, such searches make no indication of whether a website article approves of or dismisses the concept searched for, so these sort of hit counts are of little use in get a feel for popular opinion on either matter. --DHouser 10:14, 27 May 2013 (EDT)

Also I have to add that not all those who searched will necessarily agree with the assertion that evolution has just so stories. I certainly have never came across any "just so" stories and, after googling it, I still have yet to find a credible "just so story." --Ryancsh 16:44 29/05/13 (GMT)

Does Conservapedia think (or hope) that people do not actually click on the links and read them? A quarter of that 54% oppose the law because it's doesn't do far enough ("not liberal enough")....basically, approximately 60% either approve Obamacare or think it should be expanded. While "According to the survey, 35 percent of Americans said they are opposed to Obamacare because they believe it's too liberal" - Winger77

The rap on James is that he is probably the most gifted athlete to ever step on a basketball court, but he's a punk - how he left Cleveland was inexcusable - and he doesn't have the mental toughness to consistently close out games - which is a problem that his contemporaries, Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, never had. But this headline has issues. The media over-promotes him? How many conservative basketball athletes have we shed light on in the past month? The fact is James is currently the best player in the NBA without question; he is so good that every time his team doesn't go 4-0 in a series and win a championship, it's apparently a news story here.--IDuan 11:46, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

And before someone who doesn't know about basketball tries to say that Kobe is better or that Durant or Melo are better because they score more - the fact is none of these players have the well rounded game that James has. Durant is probably a better shooter, but doesn't have quite the rebounding skill and certainly lacks the defensive presence and the passing skill. Bryant is probably the best one-on-one player in the league (although who knows what he'll be like after injury), but is terrible at off-ball defense and tends to force shots (to be fair though, again, there was a long while when his options were: shoot with all 5 guys guarding him, or pass to Smush Parker). Melo was the league leading scorer and the only player to get an MVP vote besides James (he got one) - but again he isn't the passer, rebounder or defender that James is. But ultimately what it comes down to is people expect him to win. We didn't run a story when Durant's Thunder got eliminated by the Grizzlies who were then easily handled by the Spurs. (Although it probably would've at least been a tighter series with Westbrook, but then the knock on James is that he couldn't do it without Wade.) But the Pacers even the series with the Heat and we need a top-of-the-site headline that James is, in fact, fallible.--IDuan 11:56, 29 May 2013 (EDT) Statistically LeBron doesn't measure up to the media hype about him, and he has won only one NBA title after joining a team with the best players. The bottom line is that the media declared him long ago to be the best, and is sticking to their story with an absurd amount of promotion.--Andy Schlafly 12:54, 29 May 2013 (EDT) Yes there's been a huge amount of hype - but statistically he is the best active player - and he probably is one of the most versatile players since magic - how would anyone expect the media not to over-report on him? It's basic sports media capitalism that stories on superstars get readers or viewers.--IDuan 13:03, 29 May 2013 (EDT) "Statistically, Lebron doesn't measure up?" How does one qualify that? What stats does he have to have in order for you to say that he does measure up? Face it,for whatever reason, you don't like him so he's a target. Never, in the NBA, has there been a player with his combination of skills. He most certainly demands media coverage, whether you like him or not. He may only have one ring but he's got one more than your "outspoken Christian," Kevin Durant.

-AndyHill

LeBron can't win the scoring title, and has trouble defeating weaker teams in the playoffs. This warrants the overhype???--Andy Schlafly 19:44, 29 May 2013 (EDT) What overhype? He's an astonishingly good basketball player. One of the best in the history of the game. It's very easy to equivocate by saying that he "has trouble defeating weaker teams in the playoffs" but you're making excuses - (a) he's got a ring, (b) he's a member of a team, not responsible for the fate of them all, and (c) how do you personally determine which team is weak that he nonetheless defeated and what does that even mean? Who are these outspoken Christians who don't get the coverage you think they should? $100 says they're nowhere close to the player LeBron James is and therefore don't deserve additional coverage for their playing. They may deserve extra coverage for bending their knees in public as you seem to want but that's a completely different issue. You should note that when his teammate had a seizure on court he gathered both teams together to pray in the middle of the court and later mentioned Jesus Christ on national television. He's a Christian man. He's as outspoken as circumstances call for. Nate 20:22, 29 May 2013 (EDT) Amen Nate. And if Lebron did win the scoring title, he'd be called a ball hog.

-AndyHill

I don't think Lebron is the best ever. By a fair shot. I think he's probably the most versatile ever, but not best. I also do think - and no one who knows basketball would argue this - that he is the best player today. Carmelo Anthony won the scoring title - I promise you he is not the best player in the league. Thinking that players go out and play the game to win scoring titles is a gigantic misunderstanding of basketball.--IDuan 21:01, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

LeBron ranks #31 in field goal percentages in this postseason, despite lots of easy baskets. [25] For such a performance he is given the nearly unanimous MVP, and declared one of the greatest players of all time???--Andy Schlafly 23:57, 29 May 2013 (EDT) Even in that category, look at the FGM (field goals made) column. There's nobody above him in FGM/game and nobody near him in total FGM. It's a lot easier to average 100% when you have 1, 2 or 3 attempts than James with 218. MelH 00:30, 30 May 2013 (EDT) Andy, you're joking, right? First of all, the MVP was awarded May 6th and does not take postseason stats into consideration. Secondly, even if it did, a cursory look at the postseason leaders in FG% reveals that the three players tied for first played one, one and three games, rendering the statistic meaningless. Marcus Camby, tied for number one, took ONE SHOT IN THREE GAMES and made it, giving him a field goal percentage of 1.0000. Lebron is shooting 52% (@25.2/g). Where's Durant? #78, 46%, 31 ppg. Face it, he's the best player in the game right and he gets media attention because of it. Kevin Durant and any other player would get just as much attention (and Durant gets a lot) if they were as good. The glaring irony here is that the Christian sports star who DOES get overwhelming, yet undeserved, media attention is Tim Tebow, who has accomplished virtually nothing. Why isn't he on your list of overrated sports stars?

-AndyHill

Name one player above him on that list who you would pick for MVP. This is just a continuation of a misunderstanding of basketball - this notion that the best player needs the most points scored and the highest field goal percentage - or even moreover that the postseason is a large enough sample size to determine anything - as everyone else has already noted. But AndyHill has a good point that MVP decisions are based on the regular season - for which Lebron was #5 in FG% - only outranked by four post players and scoring almost 10 points a game more than any of them. [26] --IDuan 01:57, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Andy, I appreciate that Lebron is not your favorite player, he is certainly not mine either, however, Lebron's 2012-13 season is one of the greatest seasons from a statistical standpoint in NBA history. Lebron averaged 26.8 ppg, 8 rpg, and 7.2 apg while shooting 56.5 from the field and 40.6 from 3, all while leading his team to the best record in the NBA (66 wins) and the second longest winning streak in NBA history with a 27 game run. This doesn't even begin to address the advanced stats on Lebron which are out of control. I would challenge you to find 5 other examples from any other player in NBA history with that kind of season. You may dislike Lebron for political or religious reasons, though I'm not sure exactly what he has done to anger you, but it seems to me the attention Lebron gets is extremely well-deserved.--Krayner 09:24, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Oops: Overrated sports star Lebron James scores 30, adds 8 rebounds and 6 assists to lead the the Heat over the Pacers for a 3 games to 2 lead over the Pacers. I give you permission to use this headline. - AndyHill

"Evolutionary racism directed towards an accomplished soccer player puts a sour note on a soccer match." Read the bloody thing! It was a game of Australian Rules! Not soccer. Even Americans know Aussie Rules.... Don't they?

Anyway...the person who called this player an "ape" is thirteen. She's what you Americans would call "trailer trash". She has no more idea of "evolutionary racism" than she has ideas on the personification of the Greek myths. AlanE 04:36, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

You can at least get your sport correct. How is that Rugby Union player Tim Tebow doing this season? And it does not mention that the person was liberal, In fact I doubt at that age their political beliefs would be clear. I think I know why you run from debates, you can't get simple facts right--Patmac 09:02, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

I reckon Tebow might go alright in rugby - maybe as a second five eighths. Can he kick would be the only issue. --DamianJohn 03:37, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

An after note, I have never been down under, but I know English and Australian culture are closer than either are to American culture. And racism here is far more likely to be expressed by right wing scumbags like the EDL, BNP, or National Front. I guess it is similar in Australia. These people are not liberal --Patmac 09:45, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Well, User:Conservative seems to have realised his mistake and corrected it without reading this talk page, so that's good, however Creation Ministries' have a few facts wrong in their article. WilcoxD 20:23, 30 May 2013 (EDT) As a collingwood supporter myself I would have to say to you AlanE, which sport do you follow ? Wogball ?

How exactly has free speech been limited? Adrian Peterson said what he did, and he wasn't shouted down. Rather, most news outlets seem to have picked up the story. Over half the country now supports the idea of gay marriage, but nobody's right to speak their views on either side have been taken away. Good grief.---eg

Tim Tebow had to cancel an event at an anti-gay-marriage church because of valid concerns about exclusion by NFL teams and, indeed, he's been excluded for even lesser speech. The media is publicizing the speech by the NFL MVP in part because some want to see his career limited because of his views.--Andy Schlafly 22:28, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

"Because of valid concerns about exclusion" and "some want to see his career limited because of his views." Really. Where's your evidence? Who is "some?" The punter for the Vikings was cut, and he supported gay marriage. So who was really "excluded" for his speech? (no one, that's who.) You can make up whatever scenario you want want and splash it on the main page but it doesn't make it so. To sum up: Petersen said what he said and nobody has or will silence him. Tim Tebow was cut not because of his opinions, but because he's a bad QB. Reality. Join us here. - AndyHill

Yeah, I have to agree. Andy, do you have a single shred of evidence to support your paranoid claims? AP is one of the most beloved players in the league right now. The same media who voted AP as Most Valuable Player over "overrated" Peyton Manning now wants to destroy his career? This site becomes more of a farce with each passing day.---eg

I believe that the question of why was the only witness to the tripple murders killed is a valid one. However, I believe the article on the tripple murders leaves much to be desired. I have left comments on the article's talk page. In addition, I have seen a lot of main stream media coverage of the FBI internal investigation into the shooting. For example, the Washington Post ran a story. So, I do not believe CP is correct in claiming that the MSM is ignoring the question of how the only witness was shot during questioning. Thanks, Wschact 03:50, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

The lamestream media are NOT calling for an independent investigation, and merely an internal investigation is obviously meaningless.--Andy Schlafly 12:33, 31 May 2013 (EDT) If your concern is the editorial page advocacy of the main stream media, say that (and give sources). Instead, there is a false claim that the main stream media has not be covering the fact that there has been a shooting and that the FBI has an internal investigation into the shooting. So, the statements are incorrect and do not say what was meant. Thanks, Wschact 09:31, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

How about a front page item on this bigotry.[27]

Hi. I'm confused. I read the article on the Main Page and it says the Jets and Giants just don't want the amusement facility to expand or have events during their games because of traffic concerns, not that they are trying to stop it entirely. Also, what does any of this have to do with Christianity and how is the NFL "increasingly non-Christian?"

Thanks, Johnfitz

What the Jets are doing could make the amusement park unprofitable, which would block it as a practical matter. Also, the complete exclusion of Tim Tebow by the NFL is an example of its increased hostility to Christianity.--Andy Schlafly 12:36, 31 May 2013 (EDT) It seems to have survived OK so far.--MasonFergus 19:25, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

Could it be that Tim Tebow is just not good enough?--Patmac 12:44, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

He's clearly good enough not to be completely banned by the NFL.--Andy Schlafly 12:59, 31 May 2013 (EDT) Well, of course he hasn't been banned from the NFL. The League isn't going to ban any player who hasn't committed an egregious violation of its rules and/or ethics. I haven't been banned either, so that must mean I'm good enough, too.---eg I'm not banned from the NFL either and I can't even play American Wendyball. Rugby's a better game anyway.--MasonFergus 18:25, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

Hi,

Mr. Schlafly, you said "could make the the amusement park unprofitable." How do you know this? And if the builders of the park agreed to certain parameters and are now exceeding them, then it's their fault. As far as Tebow is concerned, he's not the only player in the league who is an outspoken Christian. In fact, I have a friend who plays for the Raiders who is an outspoken Christian and he has no trouble at all. I would like to see some evidence of your charge. I'm new here but it seems like some of the statements that are made here are pure speculation. Doesn't that go against the Conservapedia Commandments?

Thanks, Johnfitz

Apologies, I have to say I know little about football and am not suggesting Tim is not good, but he is at about that age (24 I guess) when great young players in team sports mature into great players or fail to make that step, just as Wayne Rooney has failed to do. I am only suggesting that he may have not made that step yet and at the moment he may not be good enough for the top 3 or 4 teams--Patmac 19:23, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

Hey Ken, if you need any help with your book why don't you just ask me? Unlike your "Canadian author" I'm actually capable of getting books written and published (search my name on Amazon for details) and I'll be happy to write it for you for $2,000. You know how to contact me.--MasonFergus 18:21, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

Yes, but the QE! book has several children interested in maybe reading it. For some reason, the Lamestream Media doesn't want to report that. Rafael 14:34, 1 June 2013 (EDT) Fergus, given your latest screwup, I don't think CMI will be wanting to use you as an author for any book. By the way, if you read chapter VIII of this book, you will see that the agnostic Richard Dawkins made factual errors that a fact checker could have easily found. Fergus, why are agnostics so prone to making factual errors when railing against God? Is agnosticism based on emotion and not on facts/logic? Logic certainly does not support agnosticism (See: Agnosticism). In addition, the evidence does not support agnosticism. Fergus, as far as book authors, CMI is not looking for a "short order cooks". They are looking for chefs. You need to understand the difference between activity and productivity. Conservative 11:14, 24 June 2013 (EDT) "Logic certainly does support agnosticism". I'm guessing you meant to write "does not support agnosticism"? - Markman 11:10, 24 June 2013 (EDT)

Is this now a pre requisite for being allowed to edit Conservapedia? (MasonFergus ). Especially as VivaYehshua? has absolutely no intention of doing your dirty work for you. Stop your attacks on moderate christianity. I really am beginning to think you are nothing but a cowardly bully who hides behind the big boy when someone fights back, the big boy in this case being the block button. (Block log); 19:50 . . Conservative (Talk | contribs) changed block settings for MasonFergus (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 2015-05-31T23:49:39Z (account creation disabled) (lack of machismo - still has not debated VivaYeshua like he said he would). You would not know what machismo is if it bit you on the bum.--Patmac 11:07, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

I cannot speak for Conservative, but my understanding is that Mr. Mason has been banned from Conservapedia under a different account. I changed the block reason to reflect this. As far as I am aware, refusing to debate a third party is not grounds for a ban from Conservapedia. Also, to Mr. Mason, all further ban appeals should go directly to Mr. Schlafly by e-mail. GregG 11:14, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Which Greg, is more than fair, so why did he not state that? I know I should not react to conservative the way I do but I am very bitter about being labelled as whoremonger, atheist, faux christian etc without a hint of contrition from him--Patmac 11:21, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Greg: At 21:12 on 31 May, you reblocked MasonFergus on the grounds of being a sockpuppet, after (quite rightly) chewing out Cons for blocking with gratuitous remarks like "lack of machismo". It is true that "MasonFergus" was a sock, but I consider this account creation to be justifiable under the circumstances. His earlier account "MasonFW" had been blocked, by Cons of course, at 01:11 on 21 May. The block reason at that time was simply the URL of a YouTube video! Of a song by Joe Jones!! Furthermore, that earlier account had challenged Cons to a debate. You can see it on this page in the section "VivaYehshua vs. Fergus Mason - VivaYehshua won hands down!" and the following section "How does one debate VivaYehshua?". Cons has continued to make libelous accusations that Mr. Mason refuses to debate this person of questionable connection with Conservapedia, while himself refusing to debate Mr. Mason. Blocking someone, with a block reason that is a Joe Jones song, for challenging Cons to a debate, and then accusing that person of cowardice, is not the sort of behavior that you should be supporting in any way. SamHB 21:12, 1 June 2013 (EDT) My understanding is that Karajou was the first to block a Fergus Mason account (User:FergusMason, http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User%3AFergusMason&year=&month=-1). As I said, all further ban appeals should go directly to Mr. Schlafly by e-mail, who I trust is adept at examining the contributions, the stated block reason, and the appeal rationale, and, if necessary, contacting the original users responsible for the block. GregG 19:58, 2 June 2013 (EDT)

User:conservative, have a look at this piece of research[28]

It shows:

Global religiosity drops by 9%, while atheism rises by 3%.

College educated are 16% less religious than those without secondary education.

The United States has seen a 13% drop in religiosity since 2005.

These findings seem to contradict the claims made by user:conservative and his/her/their/it's continuing linking to the Question evolution! Campaign blog. EJamesW 17:35, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

You know, it's funny: atheists like you two toss around words like "free-thinking", "reason", "rational", and "logic" around like snowballs... but that whole worldview, on average, has the most illogical people I have ever seen. It's a worldview built on jingoes and slander.

Also: this[29], this[30], and this[31].

Do svitaniya, comrades. ZetaSonic 20:59, 2 June 2013 (EDT)

I wonder how James researching actual statistics is cause enough for Zeta to attack him for no apparent reason other than the implication that he is an atheist. Tell me Zeta, why would you instantly resort to what I would call a liberal tactic of mud-slinging simply because someone decides to bring up a valid and supported statistic? Ryancsh 07:35, 3 June 2013 (GMT)

Zeta, do you know what semantic analysis is? And why would a Sysop use a sock? Rafael 08:00, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

The pronoun whom should be who, as who is acting as the predicate nominative of the verb "to be". GregG 18:42, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

MainPageRight has an item "New Jersey voters! This Tuesday is Primary Day. Herewith a voter guide." However, the voter guides again promotes certain blogs and does not reflect the consensus views of CP editors (many of whom do not follow New Jersey politics.) I do not believe that CP should engage in promoting specific candidates or in engaging in partisan political activities. We are here to write an encyclopedia. Thanks, Wschact 09:20, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

This is a conservative encyclopedia. Your moral neutralism in which nothing can be condemned or approved might work on wikipedia, but not on this website. It is our duty to support candidates who will promote sound policy and morality. - Markman 18:14, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

I'm looking for a news item on the results of the New Jersey primary. Will there be a news item on Main Page Right with this information? -AndyHill

I guess I'll do it. Doesn't look like our candidates did so well:

http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2013/06/complete_list_of_2013_primary.html

-AndyHill

This should probably be worded "lacks the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster." Legislation in the Senate passes by majority vote. GregG 11:26, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

While mainpage right continues to bring us the latest op-eds from the blogosphere, it manages to miss the biggest news story in the world this morning. Rafael 09:06, 6 June 2013 (EDT)

I think you misunderstand what "What the MSM ins't fully covering" means. MPR is not intended to be a comprehensive news aggregation service. That news story is being fully covered by the MSN: it's front page of NPR, MSNBC, Fox News, CNN and so forth. Stories like Common Core and the Missouri Congressional election are not receiving (sufficient) MSM coverage. Thanks, WilliamWB 10:25, 6 June 2013 (EDT) And speaking of the MSM, reports are circulating that the NYT has radically toned down an earlier editorial from "The Obama Administration has lost all credibility" by quietly inserting "on this issue." afterwards. Another example of the media capitulating to liberal interests, I think. http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245566/245668/www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html Thanks, WilliamWB 23:07, 6 June 2013 (EDT) To be fair, the wiretapping started under the Bush administration. However, the Obama administration is guilty of extra-judicially expanding information collection to an unprecedented and dangerous degree.--JHunter 01:32, 7 June 2013 (EDT)

William: Apologies for my delayed response. I got a week's ban for raising this issue.

I agree with your point about stories the MSM ignores. The battle between liberals and conservatives for the soul of the Anglican (Episcopalian) Communion, for ecample, is important and alive. Only this week, the bishops in the British parliament caved in gay marriage, despite pressure from bishops and archibishops in the developing world.

However, I don't accept the MSM will cover the NSA / PRISM story fully. It's in damage limitation mode and trying to bury it as fast as it can.

Let's be blunt. This is THE issue that can hurt Obama. The birth certificate, the IRS, Benghazi, all those are easy for liberals to ignore. The NSA / PRISM issue was raised by a liberal journalist in a liberal newspaper and is tearing the liberal community apart around the world.

It's also a live issue at internationally. The Chinese already used it as leverage last weekend. This week, Merkel is asking why Germany is under greater surveillance than Russia.

The whole world can see the Emperor is naked.

This is the best leverage conservatives have had aganist liberalism in years. It needs using. Rafael 14:41, 12 June 2013 (EDT)

Only one month ago in the context of a Biblical passage debate, we were talking about the importance of context. Now we're chopping a New York Times quote - when the last two words of that sentence drastically limit the scope by comparison. Is context only necessary when it's conducive to the point we're trying to make?--IDuan 11:21, 7 June 2013 (EDT)

I am bit confused by the news item on main page about UK having a debt to income ratio of 212%. The same guardian article says this about USA "The US is in even worse shape than Greece. Its $16tn (£10tn) debt ......more than 560% of government revenues". So how does it make Britain bad? It is my beloved Ireland which is staggering under debt.

Maria O'Connor 09:27, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

You are using relativistic morality in terms of the debt to income ratio. You need to ask yourself WWJD (What would Jesus do) in terms of handling a counties finances. Comparing Britain to Barack "Hey big spender" Obama and George "compassionate conservatism" Bush does not make the British handling of its finances any less bad. Both Bush and Obama come from the baby boomer generation which experienced great prosperity and their moral reflexes in terms of fiscal discipline when it came to their countries finances was quite lax. But even if I were to grant you relativistic morality, Britain's external debt to GDP ratio is horrible compared to many countries and it is over 3 times worse than the United States. [32] I generally don't comment on talk pages anymore, but I felt your question was sincere. As a side note, I do think that Britain and the UK would have better finances if they got involved in less warfare. Israel sent out assassins to seek justice in terms of the Munich Olympic Games terrorism. America and Britain got involved in the Afghanistan and Iraq boondoggles (Obama stepped up the warfare in Afghanistan). Some might say Obama had no choice but to continue the war in Afghanistan due to national pride. Last time I checked, pride is still a sin. :) Also, the data suggests that if more Irish had the Protestant work ethic (like Bible believing conservative Protestants in Northern Ireland) then Ireland would not be staggering under so much debt. Please read the Guardian articles HERE and HERE and this will provide further data to buttress my case. This is due to a the respective cultural legacies of these countries. (please read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell which discusses how enduring cultural legacies are). Conservative 09:53, 10 June 2013 (EDT) I would simply like to point out that, if you are going for a purely atheistic viewpoint, China's debt to GDP is (as you would expect) very low. Also, Australia and Canada are slightly lower than US. I also want to say that I don't think external debt to GDP is a very valid way of determining the state of a country's economy, mainly because of how external debt factors in private entities. An example of what happens when there is little private debt because of a small economy would be a Iran, with only a 4% ratio, other examples include Nigeria (5%), Paraguay (13%) and Haiti (5%). I don't think you could claim that their economies are better than the US economy, for example. JAnderson 10:26, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Debt is a burden. The is no way around that. And economic data indicates that a large debt burden on a country slows down their economy.[33] Also, high debt burdens increase economic instability. If a country's economy slows down too much, it can collapse.

Next, the 3 Cs of creditworthiness are: cash flow, collateral and character. Just because a country is not creditworthy or cannot incur debt to sanctions, that does not mean that excess debt is good. Conservative 11:42, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

2 things I don't understand or necessarily agree... 1. Why do you say your faith (protestant) has a better work ethic than mine (catholic). 2. How do you know what Jesus would do?--Maria O'Connor 12:44, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Maria, did you read the Guardian articles HERE and HERE? If you disagree with the articles, please tell me why and support your claim via evidence. Also, this 2011 Telegraph article said: "Either way, not a single Protestant or Germanic EU country has so far needed a bailout."

Also, please address this data on the degree of corruption in a country as it relates to it being more Protestant or more Catholic: Article on Protestant vs. Catholic religion and corruption.

I do think that evidence should drive the discussion and not merely the religion of one's ancestors or one's religious preference/sentiments. After all, Jesus said, "By their fruits, you shall know them." James, the brother of Jesus, said, "Faith without works is dead." Conservative 13:09, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Thanks. I think I understand your arguments. Thank you for substantiating it with the evidence. --Maria O'Connor 17:25, 10 June 2013 (EDT) You welcome. Although I am a Protestant and have some differing theological views as far as Catholicism, I do try to work with Catholics on matters we agree on such as right to life issues. Conservative 17:37, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

How can Rhythmic Gymnastics be getting re-instated into the Olympics when it is already part of it ? I was there for the Finals at the London 2012 Olympics and it was certainly part of the Olympics!. PennyS

Thanks, I fixed it. Conservative 13:18, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Reports are that he will sign/has signed with the New England Patriots. WesleySHello! 17:47, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Wait, last week it was "the complete exclusion of Tim Tebow by the NFL is an example of its increased hostility to Christianity," and that he's been "completely banned by the NFL." Clearly, this was not the case. The fact that Tebow is signing with the Pats demonstrates that there is no hostility towards Christianity in the NFL and that he wasn't "banned." The Jets are no more or less "liberal" than the Patriots. I highly doubt football teams take ideology into account whilst making football decisions. And finally, ""Tebow"" will be able to crush the Jets? From what position? He will play a few downs a game, if at all. Hardly a position from which he could "crush" anyone.

AndyHill

Never mind that the problem of Big Brothering is endemic in the United States system - when Bradley Manning dropped the dox on Bush, the government went to the same great lengths to baww about it as well. brenden 13:31, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

What did the Manning case have to do with Big Brotherism? Apparently nothing. Also, the Manning case was about foreign issues, which is under military jurisdiction, not domestic spying as in the Snowden case.--Andy Schlafly 16:34, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

The headline betrays the article, which while still very serious, explains the lighthearted nature of the overheard conversation. Of course the conversation is still inappropriate, but NOT to be taken seriously. Jacob Anderson 19:07, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Wikipedia toady Aneesh Chopra has conceeded in his first attempt at elective office. On Tuesday, Chopra lost the Democratic Primary for Virginia Lt. Governor by a 54% to 45% vote. [34]. Perhaps this is worth a MAINPAGERIGHT news item. Wschact 21:28, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Seriously? Liberals oppose father's day? Why on earth would this be said, and how on earth could you prove it? Everyone I know celebrates it in some way, from people who seem to be happy living on the dole their whole life to my girlfriends grandfather, who was quite happy about the recent stabbing of a muslim cleric. I have looked at the father's day article, which indicated one school, in one country, once tried to replace father's day with something more general. This does not mean that every liberal, or even a large minority of liberals, find disfavour with the holiday. KBeer 20:19, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

No one claims that "every liberal" finds disfavor with Father's Day. But liberal policies do tend to marginalize and disfavor fathers, something numerous father's rights groups can confirm.--Andy Schlafly 20:28, 16 June 2013 (EDT) But the headline said liberals find disfavor with Father's Day. Which implies ALL liberals. And Andy, your rebuttal to KBeer refers to liberal policies and fathers, which isn't even close to "disfavoring Father's Day." That headline was disingenuous at best.

AndyHill

http://www.naturalnews.com/040448_solar_radiation_global_warming_debunked.html

Natural news as a reliable source? The New Age website? At a tangent, the colder weather in the UK has been caused by disruptions to the gulf and jet streams. Global warming? No. Climate change? Definitely. Rafael 10:06, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

The wording "Is the reason why ... because ... ?" on MPR makes me a little uneasy - reasons aren't "because" they are "that", although please correct me if the case is different in US English. Also, there's a double "is" in there. WilcoxD 01:56, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

So nobody is interested in fixing the grammatical errors on the front page? WilcoxD 17:44, 18 June 2013 (EDT) Is that headline still there?--Andy Schlafly 18:38, 18 June 2013 (EDT) The double "is" is (... HAH!). Actually I hadn't noticed that the "because" had been corrected as I saw the two is's and thought the whole lot had been ignored, so sorry for my tone above and thank you. WilcoxD 18:45, 18 June 2013 (EDT) Actually Andy, while I have your attention, have you given any thought to my suggestion of dropping main page headlines into the news column when they are removed or replaced? WilcoxD 18:49, 18 June 2013 (EDT) Corrected the "is ... is", and your point about preserving the Main Page headlines is a good suggestion ... perhaps with placement below the top headlines on the MPR.--Andy Schlafly 23:53, 18 June 2013 (EDT)

FOX News: Brazil congressional panel approves controversial bill that would allow 'gay cure' treatments (June 18, 2013). It's only the very first step. So far it's been approved only by one committee of Brazil's Chamber of Deputies. The proposal still needs the approval of at least two other committees before being sent to the Chamber's floor. And then it would need to be approved by the Senate, not to mention avoid being vetoed by the Brazilian President. --Ty 00:53, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

These treatements should be made mandatory, much like an instution for the mentally ill and deranged. Bearing in mind, of course, that freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. How would that not fall under expression? GandooChuth 13:52, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

How does this fit into the concept of personal freedom and limited government? SamDavis 20:35, 19 June 2013 (BST)

But this is happening here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/us/a-leaders-renunciation-of-ex-gay-tenets-causes-a-schism.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

AndyHill

A person can become an ex-homosexual without the use of psychotherapy bunkum. In 1980 a study was published in the American Journal of Psychiatry and eleven men participated in this study. The study in the American Journal of Psychiatry stated that eleven homosexual men became heterosexuals "without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy" through their participation in a Pentecostal church (E.M. Pattison and M.L. Pattison, "'Ex-Gays': Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals," American Journal of Psychiatry, Vol. 137, pp. 1553-1562, 1980). 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (King James Version) 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.Conservative 06:15, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

So, still waiting for Schafly or one of his minions to write about "overrated sports star" LeBron James taking his second title and championship series MVP in as many years. What, cat got your tongue? GandooChuth 19:12, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

The media hype for LeBron James is way over the top. The Heat underachieved in the playoffs, barely winning two 4-3 series with the home-court advantage. Citing overhype in the media is not evidence that LeBron James is one of the greatest players ever. He joined a team of great players, and they have barely won.--Andy Schlafly 19:16, 21 June 2013 (EDT) Show me your NBA titles and we'll talk. GandooChuth 19:19, 21 June 2013 (EDT) What is that supposed to mean? Only people who have played basketball and been successful are allowed to analyze basketball?--IDuan 13:53, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

There's irony in trying to make these countries left/right by the American political system. We're shouting that he's run off to the more conservative Russia - yay good! - and then we're saying he's headed to Iceland, Ecuador, or Venezuela via Cuba - which are all liberal.--IDuan 13:35, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

This is all yellow journalism - "Obama's nemesis"? Really? Furthermore even this issue is not clearly left/right - as our article notes on Snowden, Boehner has called for his arrest as well; he did leak classified information. Are we so Machiavellian that no matter what the cost, "embarrassing" Obama is worth it? I start to get the feeling that if bin Laden had flown a plane into the White House and killed Obama this site would have praised him as a great conservative hero.--IDuan 13:38, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

American politics are not tantamount to boxing matches; it's dangerous to act as if they are. Snowden is also getting help from WikiLeaks, an organization we've critiqued in the past - derided as liberal, founded by leftist Julian Assange.--IDuan 13:50, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

This issue does reflect the current state of politics - someone who is a critic of someone I don't support - must be good. As they say - Politics makes very strange bedfellows. Several conservatives have been using a UK Guardian as a source - which in the past they have called a left-wing rag. The edges of both Left and right have come together on the issue of privacy. Republicans were for it and now against it - Democrats were against it an now are for it. The media (depending what their politicial leaning) are quick to call out the other side for inconsistency. People like me - scratch our heads and wonder what to make of it all. Maybe if we had political figures who actually believe in something - and not continually trying to score points against the 'other side' something could actually get done. [[SamDavis}} 15:41 (BST)

Not sure why someone who is not a public figure is being called out and ridiculed on our main page. Certainly we should have higher standards. GregG 14:08, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

EDIT: I am referring to this feature by the way. GregG 14:11, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

Also, it's featured on Conservapedia not, featured on some random unaffiliated website that merely happens to talk about creationism.brenden 00:27, 24 June 2013 (EDT)

Once again, not mentioning that conservatives such as John Boehner have also called for Snowden's extradition is deliberately misrepresenting the reality that this is not a party line issue.--IDuan 11:28, 25 June 2013 (EDT)

John Boehner has not been much of a conservative, unfortunately. Most conservatives have been unhappy with the House leadership.--Andy Schlafly 12:55, 25 June 2013 (EDT) But you don't think it's disingenuous to suggest that one party is campaigning for Snowden's extradition? As our main page does.--IDuan 14:25, 25 June 2013 (EDT)

The Supreme Court did NOT toss out the federal pre-clearance requirement of election procedures in the Voting Rights Act, that is Section 5. The Supreme Court struck down the formula used to determine the locations needing pre-clearance, which is Section 4. SJC 13:29, 25 June 2013 (EST)

You're right about the details, but the effect is to toss out the pre-clearance until Congress enacts a new formula, which Congress is unlikely to do.--Andy Schlafly 13:52, 25 June 2013 (EDT)

I find the various conservative positions on Snowden utterly perplexing. I believe him to be a traitor, so do John Boehner and Move America Forward, but many seem to think him a freedom fighter and a patriot. Nancy Pelosi too wants him arrested, but lots of liberals also support him as a freedom fighter and a patriot. But he has released secrets which will make it easier for foreign terrorists to kill Americans, but somehow we're supposed to support him, and yet we have hounded Bradley Manning and Julian Assange for releasing documents that "put American lives in danger". In WWI, WWI and the Cold War, there would have been no hesitation in condemning him and executing him as a traitor. But now he's someone we should support? I find this very at odds with morals - we really seem to be all over the map here, and my question is "Why?". Why is the issue of secret document release one that gives all sides of the political spectrum conniptions and a total inability to speak with one voice on a matter of what seems like common morality? Why is a position of these actions being right or wrong proving so difficult to come to a conclusion about? KBinbota 02:03, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

I don't see a source on that story. I was under the impression that it was 2/3rds of Republicans who oppose same sex marriage, and about 45% of the country as a whole. --HHB 18:51, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

One possible explanation is that only 13 states plus the District of Columbia, representing 30% of US population, have legalized same-sex marriage. Of course there are residents of other states that would support it but there are also residents of the 13 states and DC who oppose. MelH 19:10, 26 June 2013 (EDT) Ah, that must be what the headline is referring to. Perhaps it should be rewritten to 37 out of 50 to avoid such confusion?Or just changed to 2/3rds of states? Since we don't need to specify the united states, because no one will think that we are talking about some other set of states. It's unneeded wordiness that is easily misinterpreted. --HHB 19:17, 26 June 2013 (EDT) It does refer to states: 2/3rds of the United States. Far from being wordy, the headline is concise. It could even say "more than."--Andy Schlafly 19:59, 26 June 2013 (EDT) Saying the United States not only refers to the states themselves, but also the country (meaning the people), easily 95-98% of the time people say the US they mean the country, rather than the states. Simply remove the word "United", and you are no longer refering to two different things, but just the one that you actually mean. An extra word making you harder to understand is textbook wordiness. --HHB 20:18, 26 June 2013 (EDT) Without "United", the "states" could be misinterpreted in an international way. We have a significant number of international visitors.--Andy Schlafly 21:40, 26 June 2013 (EDT) So you're citing laws on the books as representative of what the people of the United States feel. Another new low. What laws 2/3 of the United States have on the books is completely irrelevant. MOST people are ok with gay marriage. Admit it. And by the way, it's funny that "Conservative," who supposedly no longer reads the talk page, blocked AndyHill for no reason at all. Or, simply because he/she pointed out something in the news that Conservative didn't like. Goebbels lives.

- Ryan

That particular pro-bowl star is a conservative and even has several religious tattoos - is Andy suggesting this is a gun thing?

What makes you think he's a conservative? As to religious tattoos, they are not meaningful, except as indicator of interest. The problem is, the NFL discourages development and expression of interest in Christianity.--Andy Schlafly 10:23, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

I have had two ideas about Conservapedia to help further the project:

1. I know intermediate French, and so I believe I may be able to translate some more crucial articles, or at least summarise such articles into French. I think this could help further our international reach. 2. I think that a page should be created for general chat about the Conservative movement, Conservative beliefs and individual thoughts. I've looked at the debate pages and they are dead, but I think a more fluid single page would create useful discussion.

Any thoughts? Jacob Anderson 08:12, 28 June 2013 (EDT)

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